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Current group: soc.veterans
'How'd you lose your arm?' " Mr. Acosta said. "And I'd say, 'In the war.' And they would be like, 'What war?' "
| Sid9 | | Homer Sampson | | Dick Weed | | z | | andy everett | | George Z. Bush |
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| | From: | Sid9 | | Subject: | 'How'd you lose your arm?' " Mr. Acosta said. "And I'd say, 'In the war.' And they would be like, 'What war?' " | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:47:00 -0500 |
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 | January 23, 2005
Few but Organized, Iraq Veterans Turn War Critics
By NEELA BANERJEE
Sean Huze enlisted in the Marine Corps right after the Sept. 11 attacks and
was, in his own words, "red, white and blue all the way" when he deployed to
Iraq 16 months later. Unquestioning in his support of the invasion, he grew
irritated when his father, a former National Guardsman, expressed doubts
about the war.
Today, all that has changed. Haunted by the civilian casualties he
witnessed, Corporal Huze has become one of a small but increasing number of
Iraq veterans who have formed or joined groups to oppose the war or to
criticize the way it is being fought.
The two most visible organizations - Operation Truth, of which Corporal Huze
is a member, and Iraq Veterans Against the War - were founded only last
summer but are growing in membership and sophistication. The Internet has
helped them spread their word and galvanize like-minded people in ways
unimaginable to activist veterans of previous generations, who are also
lending help.
"There's strength in numbers," Corporal Huze said. "By ourselves, we're lone
voices, a whisper in a swarm of propaganda out there. Combined, we can
become a roar and have an impact on the issues that we care about."
Those who turn to the groups are generally united in their disillusionment,
though their responses to the war vary: Iraq Veterans seeks a quick
withdrawal from Iraq; Operation Truth focuses on the day-to-day issues
affecting troops and veterans.
Iraq Veterans Against the War, which started in July with 8 people, now has
more than 150 members, including some still serving in Iraq, said Michael
Hoffman, a former lance corporal in the Marines and a co-founder of the
group.
Operation Truth, based in New York, began with 5 members and now has 300,
with an e-mail list of more than 25,000 people. Its Web site is a compendium
of soldiers and veterans' stories, a media digest on the war, and a rallying
point on issues affecting troops.
Iraq veterans are keenly aware of the need to argue for their interests,
given the struggles of veterans of Vietnam and the Persian Gulf war. The
older veterans have offered a reservoir of knowledge and compassion to help
Iraq veterans avoid the mistakes they made.
It took Vietnam Veterans of America almost 15 years to have an effect on
government policy, said Steve Robinson, executive director of the National
Gulf War Resource Center, an advocacy group for gulf war veterans. Mr.
Robinson said his group did not come into its own for about eight years,
despite help from Vietnam Veterans of America.
Mr. Robinson is working closely with Operation Truth, which he said had
already surpassed his operation in raising money.
For Corporal Huze, the transformation began when he returned home in fall
2003. Unable to forget the carnage he had seen in Iraq, he began to grapple
with the justification for the war, he said.
"By sometime in December 2003, I came to the conclusion that W.M.D.'s
weren't there and that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11, and now
I'm left with all that I'd experienced in Iraq and nothing to balance it,"
Corporal Huze said, emphasizing that he was speaking as a citizen, not as a
marine. "When I came to that conclusion, I felt this sense of betrayal. I
was full of rage and depression."
That rage has since fueled Corporal Huze, a native of Baton Rouge, La., who
is awaiting a medical discharge for a head injury. With the consent of his
commanding officers at Camp Lejeune, he speaks regularly to the media and
others as a representative for Operation Truth.
"Who I was before the war, who I was in Iraq and who I am now are three very
different men," Corporal Huze said. "I don't think I can ever have the blind
trust in the government like I had before. I think that my being over in
Iraq as an active participant, I'm a bit more responsible than others for
things there. And I think by speaking out now, it's my amends." He added, "I
don't know if it will ever balance."
Operation Truth does not address the necessity of the war. David Chasteen of
suburban Washington, a former Army captain in the Third Infantry Division
and a member of the group's board, said Operation Truth hoped to stake out a
nonpartisan position on aspects of the war that could realistically be
changed, as opposed to tackling the administration's Middle East policy.
"Our attitude was 'Want to do something? Here's what you can do: get body
armor to the guys on the ground, get interpreters to people on the ground,
get people who know how to plan this stuff on the ground,' " said Mr.
Chasteen, who said his experience in Iraq as an expert on unconventional
weapons left him disillusioned about the war. "Maybe if we tell people what
we saw, maybe some of these things can get fixed. I definitely think we
added momentum to some issues."
Operation Truth points out that when Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
took questions from soldiers in Kuwait last month about equipment shortages,
the Web site's readers sent 3,400 e-mail messages in 24 hours to members of
Congress asking for hearings into the issue, which are to be held in the
next few months.
Organizing those who have recently returned from Iraq is an uphill battle,
older veterans and Iraq veterans agreed. The first priority for many is
resuming their lives. And unlike most Vietnam veterans, many Iraq veterans
have remained in the military after returning, limiting their ability to
participate in groups critical of the government.
Despite their different focuses, Operation Truth and Iraq Veterans Against
the War overlap on some issues, most notably with lobbying the government to
address what is expected by many veterans of Iraq and previous wars to be a
high incidence of post-traumatic stress disorder among those who served in
Iraq.
Some who served in Vietnam, like Tim Origer of the Santa Fe, N.M., chapter
of Veterans for Peace, have said Iraq veterans face a more intense version
of the stresses they experienced: constant threats inherent to guerrilla
war, inability to distinguish friend from foe, and profound despair that
often accompanies taking a life, especially a civilian's.
In March 2003, reports of suicide-bombing attacks on American soldiers had
reached Sgt. Rob Sarra's Marine Corps unit in an Iraqi town called
al-Shatra. A short time later, soldiers saw an older woman walking toward
them with a small bundle. The marines, fearing that she might be a bomber,
called to her to stop, but she kept walking.
"I was looking at her, and I thought 'I have to stop this woman,' " Mr.
Sarra said. "So I fired on her, and then the other marines fired on her."
"When we got to her, we saw that she was pulling out a white flag," he said.
"She had tea and bread in her bag. I kept thinking, 'Was she a grandmother?
Was she a mother?' "
Mr. Sarra, who has left the Marines after nine years, struggled with
post-traumatic stress disorder in Iraq and at home in Chicago before seeking
counseling and help from other veterans. Now he is one of the leaders of
Iraq Veterans Against the War.
"When someone is wounded or goes through P.T.S.D., it brings what they went
through to the forefront," Mr. Sarra said. "I knew when I joined the Marines
that if I was going to be there for 20 years, I'd face combat. But the
question is, why did we go?"
A grenade tossed into Robert Acosta's Humvee in Baghdad in July 2003 left
him without his right hand and shattered his legs. Mr. Acosta, 21, spent
months in hospitals surrounded by other young amputees, watching news about
government commissions concluding that Iraq had no unconventional weapons.
He began reading, watching the news and talking to people, especially
Vietnam veterans like Mr. Origer in Santa Fe. Last summer, his girlfriend
heard Paul Rieckhoff, the founder of Operation Truth, speak on the radio.
Mr. Acosta contacted him. By the fall, Mr. Acosta had become the
organization's public face, appearing in a provocative television
Mr. Acosta, who is attending community college in Southern California, said
he hoped to bring friends from his old unit in the First Armored Division
into Operation Truth as they leave the Army, because they might start to
experience some of the problems he faced. For instance, he said, he once
used duct tape to hold his prosthesis together because he could not get it
repaired quickly at the local Veterans Affairs hospital. And people often
asked about his injury.
"People would just come up to me and say, 'How'd you lose your arm?' " Mr.
Acosta said. "And I'd say, 'In the war.' And they would be like, 'What war?'
"
--
<=========================>
Support our troops...Bring them home now. Oppose the Bush administration
<=========================>
http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/caughtonfilm.htm
"a catastrophic victory"
"Mission Accomplished"
"Bring 'em on!"
"We found Weapons of Mass Destruction"
"Mistakes were made"
"You're doing a superb job."
Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11
9/11 had nothing to with Iraq.
|
|
| | From: | Homer Sampson | | Subject: | Re: 'How'd you lose your arm?' " Mr. Acosta said. "And I'd say, 'In the war.' And they would be like, 'What war?' " | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:07:21 -0800 |
|
|
| Maybe when enough troops don't support the war, the brainwashed righties
will finally realize that opposing the war is not the same as not supporting
the troops.
"Sid9" wrote in message
news:oDPId.6310$Gj.3886@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> January 23, 2005
>
> Few but Organized, Iraq Veterans Turn War Critics
>
> By NEELA BANERJEE
>
> Sean Huze enlisted in the Marine Corps right after the Sept. 11 attacks
> and was, in his own words, "red, white and blue all the way" when he
> deployed to Iraq 16 months later. Unquestioning in his support of the
> invasion, he grew irritated when his father, a former National Guardsman,
> expressed doubts about the war.
>
> Today, all that has changed. Haunted by the civilian casualties he
> witnessed, Corporal Huze has become one of a small but increasing number
> of Iraq veterans who have formed or joined groups to oppose the war or to
> criticize the way it is being fought.
>
> The two most visible organizations - Operation Truth, of which Corporal
> Huze is a member, and Iraq Veterans Against the War - were founded only
> last summer but are growing in membership and sophistication. The Internet
> has helped them spread their word and galvanize like-minded people in ways
> unimaginable to activist veterans of previous generations, who are also
> lending help.
>
> "There's strength in numbers," Corporal Huze said. "By ourselves, we're
> lone voices, a whisper in a swarm of propaganda out there. Combined, we
> can become a roar and have an impact on the issues that we care about."
> Those who turn to the groups are generally united in their
> disillusionment, though their responses to the war vary: Iraq Veterans
> seeks a quick withdrawal from Iraq; Operation Truth focuses on the
> day-to-day issues affecting troops and veterans.
>
> Iraq Veterans Against the War, which started in July with 8 people, now
> has more than 150 members, including some still serving in Iraq, said
> Michael Hoffman, a former lance corporal in the Marines and a co-founder
> of the group.
> Operation Truth, based in New York, began with 5 members and now has 300,
> with an e-mail list of more than 25,000 people. Its Web site is a
> compendium of soldiers and veterans' stories, a media digest on the war,
> and a rallying point on issues affecting troops.
>
> Iraq veterans are keenly aware of the need to argue for their interests,
> given the struggles of veterans of Vietnam and the Persian Gulf war. The
> older veterans have offered a reservoir of knowledge and compassion to
> help Iraq veterans avoid the mistakes they made.
>
> It took Vietnam Veterans of America almost 15 years to have an effect on
> government policy, said Steve Robinson, executive director of the National
> Gulf War Resource Center, an advocacy group for gulf war veterans. Mr.
> Robinson said his group did not come into its own for about eight years,
> despite help from Vietnam Veterans of America.
> Mr. Robinson is working closely with Operation Truth, which he said had
> already surpassed his operation in raising money.
>
> For Corporal Huze, the transformation began when he returned home in fall
> 2003. Unable to forget the carnage he had seen in Iraq, he began to
> grapple with the justification for the war, he said.
>
> "By sometime in December 2003, I came to the conclusion that W.M.D.'s
> weren't there and that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11, and now
> I'm left with all that I'd experienced in Iraq and nothing to balance it,"
> Corporal Huze said, emphasizing that he was speaking as a citizen, not as
> a marine. "When I came to that conclusion, I felt this sense of betrayal.
> I was full of rage and depression."
>
> That rage has since fueled Corporal Huze, a native of Baton Rouge, La.,
> who is awaiting a medical discharge for a head injury. With the consent of
> his commanding officers at Camp Lejeune, he speaks regularly to the media
> and others as a representative for Operation Truth.
>
> "Who I was before the war, who I was in Iraq and who I am now are three
> very different men," Corporal Huze said. "I don't think I can ever have
> the blind trust in the government like I had before. I think that my being
> over in Iraq as an active participant, I'm a bit more responsible than
> others for things there. And I think by speaking out now, it's my amends."
> He added, "I don't know if it will ever balance."
>
> Operation Truth does not address the necessity of the war. David Chasteen
> of suburban Washington, a former Army captain in the Third Infantry
> Division and a member of the group's board, said Operation Truth hoped to
> stake out a nonpartisan position on aspects of the war that could
> realistically be changed, as opposed to tackling the administration's
> Middle East policy.
>
> "Our attitude was 'Want to do something? Here's what you can do: get body
> armor to the guys on the ground, get interpreters to people on the ground,
> get people who know how to plan this stuff on the ground,' " said Mr.
> Chasteen, who said his experience in Iraq as an expert on unconventional
> weapons left him disillusioned about the war. "Maybe if we tell people
> what we saw, maybe some of these things can get fixed. I definitely think
> we added momentum to some issues."
>
> Operation Truth points out that when Secretary of Defense Donald H.
> Rumsfeld took questions from soldiers in Kuwait last month about equipment
> shortages, the Web site's readers sent 3,400 e-mail messages in 24 hours
> to members of Congress asking for hearings into the issue, which are to be
> held in the next few months.
>
> Organizing those who have recently returned from Iraq is an uphill battle,
> older veterans and Iraq veterans agreed. The first priority for many is
> resuming their lives. And unlike most Vietnam veterans, many Iraq veterans
> have remained in the military after returning, limiting their ability to
> participate in groups critical of the government.
>
> Despite their different focuses, Operation Truth and Iraq Veterans Against
> the War overlap on some issues, most notably with lobbying the government
> to address what is expected by many veterans of Iraq and previous wars to
> be a high incidence of post-traumatic stress disorder among those who
> served in Iraq.
>
> Some who served in Vietnam, like Tim Origer of the Santa Fe, N.M., chapter
> of Veterans for Peace, have said Iraq veterans face a more intense version
> of the stresses they experienced: constant threats inherent to guerrilla
> war, inability to distinguish friend from foe, and profound despair that
> often accompanies taking a life, especially a civilian's.
> In March 2003, reports of suicide-bombing attacks on American soldiers had
> reached Sgt. Rob Sarra's Marine Corps unit in an Iraqi town called
> al-Shatra. A short time later, soldiers saw an older woman walking toward
> them with a small bundle. The marines, fearing that she might be a bomber,
> called to her to stop, but she kept walking.
>
> "I was looking at her, and I thought 'I have to stop this woman,' " Mr.
> Sarra said. "So I fired on her, and then the other marines fired on her."
>
> "When we got to her, we saw that she was pulling out a white flag," he
> said. "She had tea and bread in her bag. I kept thinking, 'Was she a
> grandmother? Was she a mother?' "
>
> Mr. Sarra, who has left the Marines after nine years, struggled with
> post-traumatic stress disorder in Iraq and at home in Chicago before
> seeking counseling and help from other veterans. Now he is one of the
> leaders of Iraq Veterans Against the War.
>
> "When someone is wounded or goes through P.T.S.D., it brings what they
> went through to the forefront," Mr. Sarra said. "I knew when I joined the
> Marines that if I was going to be there for 20 years, I'd face combat. But
> the question is, why did we go?"
>
> A grenade tossed into Robert Acosta's Humvee in Baghdad in July 2003 left
> him without his right hand and shattered his legs. Mr. Acosta, 21, spent
> months in hospitals surrounded by other young amputees, watching news
> about government commissions concluding that Iraq had no unconventional
> weapons.
>
> He began reading, watching the news and talking to people, especially
> Vietnam veterans like Mr. Origer in Santa Fe. Last summer, his girlfriend
> heard Paul Rieckhoff, the founder of Operation Truth, speak on the radio.
> Mr. Acosta contacted him. By the fall, Mr. Acosta had become the
> organization's public face, appearing in a provocative television
>
> Mr. Acosta, who is attending community college in Southern California,
> said he hoped to bring friends from his old unit in the First Armored
> Division into Operation Truth as they leave the Army, because they might
> start to experience some of the problems he faced. For instance, he said,
> he once used duct tape to hold his prosthesis together because he could
> not get it repaired quickly at the local Veterans Affairs hospital. And
> people often asked about his injury.
>
> "People would just come up to me and say, 'How'd you lose your arm?' " Mr.
> Acosta said. "And I'd say, 'In the war.' And they would be like, 'What
> war?' "
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> <=========================>
> Support our troops...Bring them home now. Oppose the Bush administration
> <=========================>
> http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/caughtonfilm.htm
> "a catastrophic victory"
> "Mission Accomplished"
> "Bring 'em on!"
> "We found Weapons of Mass Destruction"
> "Mistakes were made"
> "You're doing a superb job."
>
> Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11
> 9/11 had nothing to with Iraq.
>
|
|
| | From: | Dick Weed | | Subject: | Re: "How'd you lose your other | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:33:28 -0700 |
|
|
| The junior Senator from Taxxachusetts.
The billionaire honky-assed gigolo.
Lurch.
The stentorian talking cadaver.
The botoxed bloviator.
The Heinz 57 positions politician.
The
P H O N Y.
Ketchup boy.
Nam Fraud Kerry whose base of support comes from derelict dipshits like
skid9@hellsouth.net (Skid9) and these sorry pukes --
Planet Parasites:
http://www.socialism.com/nowar/nowar.html
_
|
|
| | From: | z | | Subject: | Re: "How'd you lose your other ball?" The people asked. And Mr. Teresa replied, "In my 2nd marriage. The V.V.A.W. took away my first nut." | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:20:01 -0600 |
|
|
| FruitLoopyLooneyTunesLeftistFromTheLunaticFringe@webtv.net (Dick Weed)
wrote in news:27492-41F3D1D8-52@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net:
> The junior Senator from Taxxachusetts.
>
Hey smart guy
Massachusettes is ranked 36th State-Local Tax Burden (taxes as % of income)
State Rank (1 is high-est)
'Massachusetts’ State/Local Tax Burden Below National Average
Over the past 14 years, Massachusetts’ tax burden has stabilized around the
national average. Estimated in 2004 at 9.4% of income, Massachusetts’
state/local tax burden percentage stands at 36th nationally, just below the
national average of 10.0%. '
see http://www.taxfoundation.org/massachusetts/statelocal-ma.html
|
|
| | From: | andy everett | | Subject: | Re: 'How'd you lose your arm?' " Mr. Acosta said. "And I'd say, 'In | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:30:05 GMT |
|
|
|
Sid9 wrote:
> January 23, 2005
>
> Few but Organized, Iraq Veterans Turn War Critics
>
> By NEELA BANERJEE
>
> Sean Huze enlisted in the Marine Corps right after the Sept. 11 attacks and
> was, in his own words, "red, white and blue all the way" when he deployed to
> Iraq 16 months later. Unquestioning in his support of the invasion, he grew
> irritated when his father, a former National Guardsman, expressed doubts
> about the war.
>
> Today, all that has changed. Haunted by the civilian casualties he
> witnessed, Corporal Huze has become one of a small but increasing number of
> Iraq veterans who have formed or joined groups to oppose the war or to
> criticize the way it is being fought.
....
How can we screw up when we are on Gods side.
|
|
| | From: | George Z. Bush | | Subject: | Re: 'How'd you lose your arm?' " Mr. Acosta said. "And I'd say, 'In the war.' And they would be like, 'What war?' " | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:53:05 -0500 |
|
|
| andy everett wrote:
> Sid9 wrote:
>> January 23, 2005
>>
>> Few but Organized, Iraq Veterans Turn War Critics
>>
>> By NEELA BANERJEE
>>
>> Sean Huze enlisted in the Marine Corps right after the Sept. 11 attacks and
>> was, in his own words, "red, white and blue all the way" when he deployed to
>> Iraq 16 months later. Unquestioning in his support of the invasion, he grew
>> irritated when his father, a former National Guardsman, expressed doubts
>> about the war.
>>
>> Today, all that has changed. Haunted by the civilian casualties he
>> witnessed, Corporal Huze has become one of a small but increasing number of
>> Iraq veterans who have formed or joined groups to oppose the war or to
>> criticize the way it is being fought.
>
> ...
>
> How can we screw up when we are on Gods side.
Obviously that's impossible, since everybody knows that God's an American.
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