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 | | From: | Heywood Jablome | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:21:53 -0500 |
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 | First, its ridiculous to say people should profit from helping others in a
time of national disaster. People who would do this are the lowest form
of life.
But on another note, why does the US always rush to help every other
nation on earth, whatever thier problems, when we havew so many damn
problems of our own, right here? Countless Americans (Millions) have lost
jobs to overseas competition, especially in areas of computers and
technology. And while Millions of Americans are jobless, our government
(Bush and Cheney) continue to favor more immigration, and continue to make
it easier for American companies to fire Americans and send their jobs
overseas. We have no border patrol anymore along the Mexican border, and
the agents are being told not to persue and not to prosecute. Our
government recently published a handbook for "illegal immigrants entering
the US", which they are freely distributing.
Social Security is about to go belly up, as the largest number of retirees
ever in history are about to retire all at once - Baby Boomers, they call
them.
I live in a suburb of Phila. Phila just laid off 1300 city employees,
including cops and firefighters - 2 weeks before Christmas, and with the
Phila Eagles ready to go to the Super Bowl. Who's going to do crowd
control and put out all the fires the idiots start?
The whole world expects us to pay for everything and donate mponey to
every cause. We don;t have money right now, because we're all trying to
pay $2 a gallon for gas for our cars and outrageous heat and energy bills.
Those of us who even have jobs. Unemployment in the US is near all-time
highs. Personal bankruptcies in the US are AT all time highs.
I think instead of worrying about the rest of the g*d d**n world, America
needs to start taking care of America - or we're not going to have
anything to take care of pretty soon.
F**K BUSH!!
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| | From: | Jason Crowell | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:45:05 -0500 |
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| In article @pcp0010580541pcs.coatsv01.pa.comcast.net>, heywood@jablome.com says...
snip
> Social Security is about to go belly up, as the largest number of retirees
> ever in history are about to retire all at once - Baby Boomers, they call
> them.
Actually, this is a common misperception, but using the SSA's current
figures, they're good at least until 2032 using their most pessimistic
assumptions, or well past 2080 using the most optimistic assumption, and
after that, then they'll be able to pay out about 73% of benefits.
And that's if we do nothing. But the current plan to privatize Social
Security will actually make things *worse* for the trust fund [1].
But the same people that helped bring us Enron and WorldCom will make a
bundle of Social Security, and that's one reason they're putting so much
money into this campaign to scare people [2]
snip
> The whole world expects us to pay for everything and donate mponey to
> every cause. We don;t have money right now, because we're all trying to
> pay $2 a gallon for gas for our cars and outrageous heat and energy bills.
> Those of us who even have jobs. Unemployment in the US is near all-time
> highs.
Not even close, just going back to 1948, I count 14 years where
unemployment is higher, and back during the Great Depression, it was
much higher than any of the post-War years.
Yes, unemployment is higher than '00, '99, '98, '97, '96 or even '95,
but it's not as bad as it could be. And as bad as we have it here,
we've got it way better than over there. We may not have jobs, but they
lost entire cities.
snip
> F**K BUSH!!
You're preaching to the converted there.
[1] The current pseudo-plan is to borrow a bunch of money to pay
current retirees, and let people roll the bones with a third of their
FICA tax. This worked out really, *really* well for Argentina,
resulting in an economic meltdown.
[2] This is the same tactic that they used to sell us Dick & George's
Excellent Arabian Adventure. Scare the piss out of the public by lying
their asses off, and then come up with a craptacular plan to "save"
everyone from a problem that does not even exist.
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| | From: | Vorticity Kappa | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:14:35 -0500 |
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"Jason Crowell" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c56261f90dbecda98969b@news.comcast.giganews.com...
> But the same people that helped bring us Enron and WorldCom will make a
> bundle of Social Security, and that's one reason they're putting so much
> money into this campaign to scare people [2]
The people who brought us Enron and WorldCom should be getting out of jail
about then. But I think you're referring to the financial markets. Those
ridiculously overpaid people who over pretty much any period of decades have
produced returns for their investors several *times* better than Social
Security.
In passing, let me say that pointing out that someone will make a profit
from X has got nothing to do with whether or not X is a good idea. Unless
you're a Marxist, and phrases like "alienation of the proletariat from the
surplus value of their labour" are holy writ. Which I assume to be the case,
given your hostility to the concept of profit.
--
VK
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| | From: | Jason Crowell | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:17:48 -0500 |
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| In article ,
vorticitySPAMkappa@SPAMyahoo.SPAMcom says...
>
> "Jason Crowell" wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c56261f90dbecda98969b@news.comcast.giganews.com...
>
> > But the same people that helped bring us Enron and WorldCom will make a
> > bundle of Social Security, and that's one reason they're putting so much
> > money into this campaign to scare people [2]
>
> The people who brought us Enron and WorldCom should be getting out of jail
> about then. But I think you're referring to the financial markets. Those
> ridiculously overpaid people who over pretty much any period of decades have
> produced returns for their investors several *times* better than Social
> Security.
That's if you look at the stock market averages, when you look at what
the average person gets, well, the return is much closer to what you'd
get from the National Bank of Posturepedic. That's one of the good
things about Social Security, the benefit doesn't have a down year, it
doesn't make bad bets on a "sure thing" and then ride it down in flames.
Additionally, those returns include what's paid out for survivor and
disability payments. Besides that, over any period 20+ years in the
past century (IIRC), yes, the equity market does tend to outperform.
However, based on my research, we are due to have roughly flat returns
for the next 10-15 years.
> In passing, let me say that pointing out that someone will make a profit
> from X has got nothing to do with whether or not X is a good idea.
True, although when one advocates a position, and that position would
directly and substantially benefit that group financially, I tend to
question their objectivity.
> Unless
> you're a Marxist, and phrases like "alienation of the proletariat from the
> surplus value of their labour" are holy writ. Which I assume to be the case,
> given your hostility to the concept of profit.
Nope, I'm a cynic. Especially about anything related to Bush, as there
is nothing that I know of that he's been involved in that has not turned
to shit.
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| | From: | Malcolm Weir | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:25:13 -0800 |
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| On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:17:48 -0500, Jason Crowell
wrote:
[ Snip ]
>Nope, I'm a cynic. Especially about anything related to Bush, as there
>is nothing that I know of that he's been involved in that has not turned
>to shit.
A lot of health care companies would disagree with you about that...
Oh, wait, you mean "shit for anyone except his buddies"...
Malc.
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| | From: | Malcolm Weir | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:09:03 -0800 |
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| On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:21:53 -0500, heywood@jablome.com (Heywood
Jablome) wrote:
>But on another note, why does the US always rush to help every other
>nation on earth, whatever thier problems, when we havew so many damn
>problems of our own, right here?
(A) The US didn't "rush" to help the tsunami victims.
(B) Compared to, oh, dying, we're doing just great!
>Countless Americans (Millions) have lost
>jobs to overseas competition, especially in areas of computers and
>technology.
But (and follows closely) aren't dead yet!
Priorities, Heywood:
1. Stop preventable deaths.
2. Help people buy SUVs and big screen TVs.
> And while Millions of Americans are jobless, our government
>(Bush and Cheney) continue to favor more immigration,
LOL! Ummm, no. Not at all.
> and continue to make
>it easier for American companies to fire Americans and send their jobs
>overseas.
That's true.
> We have no border patrol anymore along the Mexican border,
That would surprise the CPB, which is what they currently call
themselves.
> and
>the agents are being told not to persue and not to prosecute. Our
>government recently published a handbook for "illegal immigrants entering
>the US", which they are freely distributing.
That's the Mexican government, you idiot, not the US one!
>Social Security is about to go belly up, as the largest number of retirees
>ever in history are about to retire all at once - Baby Boomers, they call
>them.
Yeah, right. "About" means "in 2042"... unless we do something about
it now.
It's not exactly an imminent problem, and one which *could* be fixed
trivially, but using politically unpopular techniques (e.g. more
taxes).
>I live in a suburb of Phila. Phila just laid off 1300 city employees,
>including cops and firefighters - 2 weeks before Christmas, and with the
>Phila Eagles ready to go to the Super Bowl. Who's going to do crowd
>control and put out all the fires the idiots start?
Same as always.
Layoffs of fire and cops effect staffing, but overtime covers a lot of
issues, as does drafting state cops in to help out.
>The whole world expects us to pay for everything and donate mponey to
>every cause. We don;t have money right now, because we're all trying to
>pay $2 a gallon for gas for our cars and outrageous heat and energy bills.
>Those of us who even have jobs. Unemployment in the US is near all-time
>highs. Personal bankruptcies in the US are AT all time highs.
Whoo! $2 a gallon. Gosh. What a fucking tragedy!
Clue: sell your SUV and buy something that gets decent mileage.
>I think instead of worrying about the rest of the g*d d**n world, America
>needs to start taking care of America - or we're not going to have
>anything to take care of pretty soon.
Nonsense!
>F**K BUSH!!
Ah, now *there* we agree!
Malc.
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| | From: | SilverOz | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:57:52 GMT |
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| In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:09:03 -0800
Malcolm Weir wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:21:53 -0500, heywood@jablome.com (Heywood
> Jablome) wrote:
>
>>Social Security is about to go belly up, as the largest number of retirees
>>ever in history are about to retire all at once - Baby Boomers, they call
>>them.
>
> Yeah, right. "About" means "in 2042"... unless we do something about
> it now.
eh?
The first of the boomers were born in the late 40s. So they are getting
to 60 now. And are starting to retire.
The last were born in the early 60s, so are 40 now, and will retire in
20 odd years, meaning the 2020s, not the 2040s.
I believe the peak was in the mid to late 50s, so they will be starting
to retire - especially the bluecollar ones who have a far shorter
working life - in the next 10 years.
If most of the boomers retire at 70 instead of 60, it shifts the peak
a bit over, however that's going to depend a lot on how many have jobs
they can physically do. Whitecollar folk age well, those who have done
physical labour all their lives age much less well.
SilverOz
- not quite boomer, not quite genX
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| | From: | Malcolm Weir | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:47:05 -0800 |
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| On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:57:52 GMT, SilverOz
wrote:
>In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:09:03 -0800
>Malcolm Weir wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:21:53 -0500, heywood@jablome.com (Heywood
>> Jablome) wrote:
>>
>>>Social Security is about to go belly up, as the largest number of retirees
>>>ever in history are about to retire all at once - Baby Boomers, they call
>>>them.
>>
>> Yeah, right. "About" means "in 2042"... unless we do something about
>> it now.
>
>eh?
Yep.
>The first of the boomers were born in the late 40s. So they are getting
>to 60 now. And are starting to retire.
>
>The last were born in the early 60s, so are 40 now, and will retire in
>20 odd years, meaning the 2020s, not the 2040s.
You, being lucky (and having your own political issues), have missed a
lot of the social security "crisis" stuff that's floating around over
here...
>I believe the peak was in the mid to late 50s, so they will be starting
>to retire - especially the bluecollar ones who have a far shorter
>working life - in the next 10 years.
True.
However... they have been contributing to something called the "social
security trust fund" (which should actually be called something
entirely different, given that it's neither a "trust" nor a "fund" in
the conventional sense of the words), which currently has a huge
balance (something north of $1.3 Trillion)
As of some date in the not-too-distant future (2018 is the most
commonly quoted), this fund's receipts will no longer exceed its
expenditures. This is the baby-boomer retirement thing kicking
in.
However, because of the huge balance, it's not until 2042 that Social
Security *actually* runs out of money, because of that huge balance.
But...
>If most of the boomers retire at 70 instead of 60, it shifts the peak
>a bit over, however that's going to depend a lot on how many have jobs
>they can physically do. Whitecollar folk age well, those who have done
>physical labour all their lives age much less well.
Well, true.
However, what's really driving this talk of "crisis" is that Shrub and
his cronies (his "base", as he says in Fahrenheit 9/11) would like to
shift some of that $1.3T (which doesn't actually exist other than as
an obligation of the US Government) out of the government into private
fund manager's hands.
Basically, the financial services sector would *love* to have that
money (or, say, half of it) to play with, so they can indulge in
techniques such as those that Halliburton was convicted of while under
Cheney and, of course, those employed by Bush's erstwhile Number 1
Contributor, a chap by the name of Ken Lay of Enron.
Other people, with what's known as "clue", recognize that "the stock
market" is *not* a safe place for amateurs, and think that diverting
tons of cash that the government doesn't actually have to the private
sector won't, in fact, help anyone but the private sector
professionals and those able to hire the best of them. John Q Public,
in general, will then lose, but who cares, since he isn't one of "the
base"?
>SilverOz
Malc.
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| | From: | SilverOz | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:48:47 GMT |
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| In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:47:05 -0800
Malcolm Weir wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:57:52 GMT, SilverOz
> wrote:
>
>>The first of the boomers were born in the late 40s. So they are getting
>>to 60 now. And are starting to retire.
>>
>>The last were born in the early 60s, so are 40 now, and will retire in
>>20 odd years, meaning the 2020s, not the 2040s.
>
> You, being lucky (and having your own political issues), have missed a
> lot of the social security "crisis" stuff that's floating around over
> here...
OK... I didn't realise that your lot didn't do pensions the same way.
Our government has an obligation to pay the old age pension to those who
pass the means test, but it's out of general revenue, not out of some
specially marked bag.
So the difficulty starts to ramp up now as the first of the boomers who
aren't self-funded start to come on the pension. And is just going to
get worse.
Especially as life expectancies are so different. Time was most of your
pensioners would take the pension at 60 or 65, then kark it at 70 or so.
These days they are likely to hang on till 80 odd or more. And there
are a lot of people in their 50s who have been spending big all their
lives and have little in the way of superannuation and savings except
their houses. Which are too expensive for the upcoming generation to
buy.
Hence the Aussie govt saying people will ahve to work till they are 70,
which isn't impressing the few bluecollar types we have left, but what
do the repub... I mean Big L Liberal party care about them? The poor
bastards forced into casual labour and jobs that pay bugger all
superannuation aren't due to be scrapped for some years yet, so they can
be ignored.
Going to be interesting to see if they can ignore all the asset rich
cash poor home owning pensioners in the next 20 years though, who can't
sell those assets for enough to live on.
Your lot might be Ok for another 40 years. I think our lot are going to
have trouble long before that.
The time to be born in Oz was before the war. If you made it through
your Depression childhood and the war, Then you had a long working life
in a massive boom when housing and food and education were cheap.
Better than the boomers had really.
SilverOz
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| | From: | Heywood Jablome | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:34:31 -0500 |
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> >The first of the boomers were born in the late 40s. So they are getting
> >to 60 now. And are starting to retire.
> >
> >The last were born in the early 60s, so are 40 now, and will retire in
> >20 odd years, meaning the 2020s, not the 2040s.
>
Yeah, 1945 (the end of WW II) was exactly 60 years ago now. Remember, the
'Baby Boom" was caused by all the soldiers who were, shall we say, taking
advantage, of their time before they went off to war, and when they were
home on leave, (early) and then the period just after the war when they
all came home and settled down and made babies. So 1941 was probably the
earliest part of the baby boom, 1945 - 47 probably the heaviest? Anybody
born in 1945 is now 60, and getting ready to retire in 5 years or so. The
crunch is coming.
We've also had a major shift in "retirement philosophy" over the past 10 -
15 years or so. In the old days, Americans worked for one company for
most of their lives, then got a gold watch when they retired, followed by
pension checks for the rest of their lives. Over the past 10-15 years,
companies shook off that burden, and put it back on the workers, inthe
form of 401k's and self directed retirement planning. And I think you'd
all be truly surprised at how uneducated and unprepared the general public
is for retirement. Most people in their 40's now probably have virtually
NOTHING set aside for retirement.
This is going to cause HUGE problems, and relatively soon.
Combine this with:
- The enormous cost of fighting the war in Iraq.
- The high cost of fuel for so long.
- The high jobless rate.
- All time high stock prices (nowhere to go but DOWN)
- All time low interest rates (CANNOT be used to further stimulate the economy)
- The number of bankruptcy cases (ALL TIME HIGH)
- The ever increasing number of American jobs going overseas.
- The ever increasing number of immigrants, both legal and illegal.
And we have the potential for a real DEPRESSION in the US within the next
10 years. I'm talking "people living out of garbage cans" poverty. 1929
all over again, and maybe even worse.
This is scary shit to think about.
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| | From: | SilverOz | | Subject: | Re: OT How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:07:09 GMT |
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| In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:34:31 -0500
Heywood Jablome wrote:
>
>
> We've also had a major shift in "retirement philosophy" over the past 10 -
> 15 years or so. In the old days, Americans worked for one company for
> most of their lives, then got a gold watch when they retired, followed by
> pension checks for the rest of their lives. Over the past 10-15 years,
It's an interesting difference between the US and good old socialist
Australia.
I presume that the old age pension was introduced here at the same time
it was in the UK (God Bless LLoyd George!), but I believe UK companies
also had company pensions, a thing unknown in Oz.
Well.. mostly. There is something called "superannuation" where
companies pay into a retirement fund, but it isn't theirs, it isn't on
their books, it's a specialist company who takes the money. I believe
that it used to be a perk, then it was mandated a few years ago (10?
20?) that a percentage of an employee's salary had to go into super.
But for most of the 20thC, it was the government, not the companies and
not the individual as such who funded the pension. LEading to some
economies of scale, and as it is general revenue, you don't have to cook
the books much more than usual.
They are running scared now of course, although maybe not as scared as
they make out, and maybe more scared than they need to be. When it
comes to governments and money, "how can you tell if a politician is
lying - their lips are moving" is very true.
SilverOz
- who was boggled to discover some bastard agent has been making money
off my super for 20 years, cos everything that went in, he got a cut.
Moved out of that fund, you can bet!
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| | From: | Heywood Jablome | | Subject: | Re: OT How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:00:53 -0500 |
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| In article ,
SilverOz@gmail.com wrote:
> In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:34:31 -0500
> Heywood Jablome wrote:
> >
> >
> > We've also had a major shift in "retirement philosophy" over the past 10 -
> > 15 years or so. In the old days, Americans worked for one company for
> > most of their lives, then got a gold watch when they retired, followed by
> > pension checks for the rest of their lives. Over the past 10-15 years,
>
> It's an interesting difference between the US and good old socialist
> Australia.
>
> I presume that the old age pension was introduced here at the same time
> it was in the UK (God Bless LLoyd George!), but I believe UK companies
> also had company pensions, a thing unknown in Oz.
>
Well, retirement in America is now up to the individual. They allow us to
put up to $3500 per year into an account called an IRA (Individual
Retirement Account). We can deduct that from our taxes. Unless we make
too much money, then its not deductable. There are alot of companies that
sell and manage IRA's. It's up to the individual to choose. Companies can
also offer their own 401k, or company plans. Employees put money in
pre-tax. And they get taxed on it when they retire and take the money, so
it grows tax-free. There's anew account called a ROTH IRA, which is all
after-tax. You can't deduct it, and you never pay tax on it.
I'm not kidding when I say I believe Americans don;t know sh*t about
retirement planning. I had a guy I work with recently tell me "I looked
into IRA's. But I didn't invest, because the money's not guaranteed. I
found out you can lose money." (!!) Swear to God!
Then there's stuff like Enron, they just took everybody's money. They
bought stupid sh*t like a $4,000 umbrella stand with it. People lost
everything they saved their whole lives - and what, one or two people went
to jail? And it took, what, 3 years? Because of Bush?
Yeah, this country is in SAD shape. I know there's a Depression coming -
big time. Within 10 years. We're f*cked. And we didn't even get to enjoy
it.
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| | From: | Heywood Jablome | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:00:03 -0500 |
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| In article , Malcolm Weir
wrote:
> > We have no border patrol anymore along the Mexican border,
>
> That would surprise the CPB, which is what they currently call
> themselves.
Do some reading, dude. The border patrol has been cut back to virtually
nothing. They are underfunded, and can't do even the basics of the job.
Thousands are crossing the border every WEEK, and there's nothing they can
do.
They have been told not to peruse, and not to prosecute.
Bush wants to give them all jobs. I think his exact words were "match any
willing employer with any willing employee." And yes, by that, he means
illegal aliens from Mexico. Bush has favored more immigration and less
restrictive immigration laws since he's been in office.
And the number of people from Mexico doesn't even compare to the number
from India in recent years - take a look around! And most of the Indians
were brought here legally - by US compaines who've paid for their
immigration and giventhem jobs without even interviewing or meeting them.
Because they work 35% cheaper than their American counterparts, on
average.
FACTS.
>
> Whoo! $2 a gallon. Gosh. What a fucking tragedy!
>
> Clue: sell your SUV and buy something that gets decent mileage.
>
Clue: I drive a 4 f**king cylinder Ford Escort, and I still spend almost
$50 a week on gas.
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| | From: | Malcolm Weir | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:52:56 -0800 |
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| On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:00:03 -0500, heywood@jablome.com (Heywood
Jablome) wrote:
>In article , Malcolm Weir
> wrote:
>> > We have no border patrol anymore along the Mexican border,
>>
>> That would surprise the CPB, which is what they currently call
>> themselves.
>Do some reading, dude.
I have, you idiot!
> The border patrol has been cut back to virtually
>nothing.
Nonsense.
> They are underfunded,
Ah, true.
However, you claimed, and I quote:
"We have no border patrol anymore along the Mexican border"
which is *utterly* false.
Here (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/07/crime.marijuana.reut/) we have
a report of one of these border patrol officers -- the ones that you
claim don't exist -- being arrested!
How did he manage that?
> and can't do even the basics of the job.
Of course they can.
Still, you probably think "the job" is 100% exclusion, which would be
nice, but it's never been practical.
>Thousands are crossing the border every WEEK, and there's nothing they can
>do.
Well, they can arrest and return. Which is what they do. Gosh.
>They have been told not to peruse, and not to prosecute.
Ah, you've confused the "don't pursue" thing with guidelines
_limiting_ pursuit for various reason...
>Bush wants to give them all jobs. I think his exact words were "match any
>willing employer with any willing employee." And yes, by that, he means
>illegal aliens from Mexico.
No, he doesn't.
Does lying amuse you, or are you just an ignorant idiot?
The words you cite referred to a *legal* "temporary worker" program,
designed to reduce *illegal* immigation.
I *know* that gets in the way of your bigotry, and I *personally*
think it a bad idea, but that's the truth.
>Bush has favored more immigration
False.
>and less
>restrictive immigration laws since he's been in office.
False.
>And the number of people from Mexico doesn't even compare to the number
>from India in recent years - take a look around!
False. By the far the most non-citizens in the USA come from Latin
America.
> And most of the Indians
>were brought here legally - by US compaines who've paid for their
>immigration and giventhem jobs without even interviewing or meeting them.
Poor widdle bigot!
And you've confused (not surprisingly, given your ignorance and
dishonesty) an H-1 visa with "immigration". Idiot!
>Because they work 35% cheaper than their American counterparts, on
>average.
That's the *overseas*, outsource number, moron!
>FACTS.
Actually, nonsense.
>> Whoo! $2 a gallon. Gosh. What a fucking tragedy!
>>
>> Clue: sell your SUV and buy something that gets decent mileage.
>Clue: I drive a 4 f**king cylinder Ford Escort, and I still spend almost
>$50 a week on gas.
Then move somewhere where you don't have to drive 100+ miles per day,
moron, or buy something that gets decent mileage.
The 4 cylinder Escort has an EPA mileage of 26/31, so if (as you
claim) you spend $50 a week on gas, then getting a Honda Civic Hybrid
with its 48 mpg rating should save you around $1100 per year...
Malc.
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| | From: | Heywood Jablome | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:12:24 -0500 |
|
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| In article , Malcolm Weir
wrote:
Malcolm, or whatever you call yourself:
You are a jerk and a twit. When you can't win an argument, all you
do is call people names. You are an ass. I won't waste anymore time on you.
And you're still wrong.
|
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| | From: | Malcolm Weir | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:31:16 -0800 |
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| On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:12:24 -0500, heywood@jablome.com (Heywood
Jablome) wrote:
>In article , Malcolm Weir
> wrote:
>Malcolm, or whatever you call yourself:
Malcolm. It's not difficult, moron.
>You are a jerk and a twit.
I disagree.
> When you can't win an argument,
LOL! Moron, you haven't even *tried* to substantiate your nonsensical
claims, let alone your pathetic lies.
> all you
>do is call people names.
No. I *also* point out the fallacies.
>You are an ass.
I disagree. And I can demonstrate your errors, omissions, deceits,
stupidity and general moron-ness.
You haven't bothered. Because, presumably, you are both a moron, and
a liar.
>I won't waste anymore time on you.
Goodie.
>And you're still wrong.
Yet you've utterly failed to demonstrate a single thing to support
that claim.
Which makes you *still* a moron and a liar.
Malc.
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| | From: | Heywood Jablome | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:28:49 -0500 |
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| Maybe you haven't been reading the right stuff, dude. Try these:
http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html
The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) estimates that in
January of 2000 there were 7 million illegal aliens living in the United
States, a number that is growing by half a million a year. (How is this
possible if the border patrol is even FUNCTIONAL?)
....
The two "magnets" which attract illegal aliens are jobs and family
connections. The typical Mexican worker earns one-tenth his American
counterpart, and numerous American businesses are willing to hire cheap,
compliant labor from abroad; such businesses are seldom punished because
our country lacks a viable system to verify new hires' work eligibility.
In addition, communities of recently arrived legal immigrants help create
immigration networks used by illegal aliens and serve as incubators for
illegal immigration, providing jobs, housing, and entree to America for
illegal-alien relatives and fellow countrymen.
There has been almost no attention paid to enforcement at worksites within
the United States. Nor has there been any recognition that the networks
created by high levels of legal immigration contribute to mass illegal
immigration.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/markoped021804.html
There has been much well-deserved criticism of President George W. Bush's
proposed amnesty and guestworker plan. But its possible effect on
America's sovereignty has seldom been mentioned, even though that may be
the most harmful in the long term.
Although the president's proposal is not specific to Mexico, it would
benefit that nation the most. Some 5 million of the estimated 8 million
illegal aliens here are Mexican, and Mexico would likely be one of the
main sources of the new guestworkers and increased permanent immigration
also called for in the Bush plan.
This is important because, in the 1990s, Mexico embarked on a campaign of
extending its political authority into the United States - not just over
Mexican immigrants, but also naturalized and native-born Americans of
Mexican ancestry. There are 10 million Mexican-born people in this country
(including 5 million illegals) plus more than 10 million additional
Americans of Mexican descent.
http://www.stoptheftaa.org/artman/publish/article_91.shtml
The Bush administrationıs plan to give amnesty to millions of illegal
aliens would prove to be an even bigger disaster than previous amnesties.
Get ready for a battle royale to save our borders. The Bush administration
and pro-immigration invasion Democrats and Republicans in Congress are
planning a big move this year to give amnesty to millions of illegal
aliens now residing in the United States.
In the strongest sign to date that the Bush administration is considering
a major immigration initiative next year, Homeland Security Secretary Tom
Ridge has called for ³some kind of legal status² for the estimated 8
million to 12 million immigrants living illegally in the United States.
Ridge, who oversees the nationıs borders, also said that such an
unprecedented legalization program should be coupled with a decision about
³what our immigration policy is,² followed by a firm commitment to enforce
it.
Don;t you DARE tell me Bush and his people don't support immigration!!
They want more, and cheaper labor for the big companies - who this
government is in bed with. If you can't see that, then YOU are a moron.
|
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| | From: | Malcolm Weir | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:39:42 -0800 |
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| On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:28:49 -0500, heywood@jablome.com (Heywood
Jablome) wrote:
>Maybe you haven't been reading the right stuff, dude. Try these:
>
>http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html
>
>The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) estimates that in
>January of 2000 there were 7 million illegal aliens living in the United
>States, a number that is growing by half a million a year. (How is this
>possible if the border patrol is even FUNCTIONAL?)
How is it possible, moron? By having, say, ONE million people trying
to enter! If Border patrol turns back half a million (i.e is
FUNCTIONAL) all the numbers add up.
And, moron, by having means of entry that don't involve the border
patrol (fly to an airport, overstay your visa, stay).
>The two "magnets" which attract illegal aliens are jobs and family
>connections. The typical Mexican worker earns one-tenth his American
>counterpart, and numerous American businesses are willing to hire cheap,
>compliant labor from abroad; such businesses are seldom punished because
>our country lacks a viable system to verify new hires' work eligibility.
>In addition, communities of recently arrived legal immigrants help create
>immigration networks used by illegal aliens and serve as incubators for
>illegal immigration, providing jobs, housing, and entree to America for
>illegal-alien relatives and fellow countrymen.
>
>There has been almost no attention paid to enforcement at worksites within
>the United States. Nor has there been any recognition that the networks
>created by high levels of legal immigration contribute to mass illegal
>immigration.
>
>http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/markoped021804.html
>
>There has been much well-deserved criticism of President George W. Bush's
>proposed amnesty and guestworker plan. But its possible effect on
>America's sovereignty has seldom been mentioned, even though that may be
>the most harmful in the long term.
Proposed, as in "not implemented".
Moron.
>Although the president's proposal is not specific to Mexico, it would
>benefit that nation the most. Some 5 million of the estimated 8 million
>illegal aliens here are Mexican, and Mexico would likely be one of the
>main sources of the new guestworkers and increased permanent immigration
>also called for in the Bush plan.
That would be the plan that got dropped in 2001.
Moron.
[ Snip ]
>Don;t you DARE tell me Bush and his people don't support immigration!!
Well, moron, luckily for you and your huffy little DARE, I didn't even
suggest that. I *understand* that, as a moron, you don't understand
the difference between "supporting immigration" and your claim, which
was that he supported *more* immigration.
>They want more, and cheaper labor for the big companies - who this
>government is in bed with. If you can't see that, then YOU are a moron.
Yet I'm not. And you, moron, don't understand the difference between
the "guest worker" scheme and "immigration" in the permanent sense.
In the real world, moron, (which I understand you don't inhabit
often), the effect of the "guest worker" program would likely be to
*decrease* the number of illegals, by providing a mechanism for them
to come up from beneath the radar to official notice, become
documented, and at the end of the 3 or 5 year term, they would have to
abandon the lifestyle to which they had become accustomed or attract
the attention of the authorities to deport them.
I realize you're too stupid to grasp this, and simply like pretending
that the reason you don't have the income you think you deserve is not
that you are an incompetent moron, but that it's all someone else's
fault (the undocumented aliens, in this case).
And I also realize that any moron who thinks that $2 a gallon gas is a
huge problem is *far* too stupid to grasp any of the above, and will
just throw a tantrum and whine.
Malc.
|
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| | From: | Heywood Jablome | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:42:56 -0500 |
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| >Because they work 35% cheaper than their American counterparts, on
>average.
>That's the *overseas*, outsource number, moron!
Once again, you show your total ignorance. Indian programmers who are
imported into the US and work here, in the hopes of getting a green card,
make 35% less than their American counterparts, on average. The ones who
work in India make next to nothing - about $400 per MONTH to do a job that
an American would get about $50,000 per year to do. Thatıs because India
is a third world nation, and a dirt poor country. $400 per month is a lot
of money there. That is why American companies are all so anxious to fire
American workers and send any job they can to be done over there. Itıs
also why American companies are fighting with one another to buy up huge
parcels of land in India to build state of the art work centers on for
these people to work in.
Far as H1B, youıre once again talking out your ass about stuff you have no
clue on. Hereıs the story on H1B:
The organization known as the ITAA (The Information Technology Association
of America) is the bunch of liars behind H1B. They are a PAC, a Political
Action Committee, and are funded by the biggest and most powerful
corporations in America, and the ones who have the most to gain from cheap
foreign labor Sun Microsystems, IBM, Hewlitt Packard, Intel, Microsoft,
and numerous others. Many of these companies have been repeatedly cited
for immigrations violations. Sun Microsystems is one of the biggest
offenders.
The ITAA is a mouthpiece for these companies. They take millions of
dollars from these companies annually, and put it in the pockets of
congressmen and senators, in exchange for favorable votes on issues that
are important to them. Immigration is one such issue.
In the 80ıs, the ITAA funded a bogus study that suggested there was some
kind of shortage of skilled American technology workers, mainly in
computer programming. So they came up with this "guest worker" program,
which was supposed to be a temporary program to bring so-called qualified
individuals from other countries to work here, until Americans could be
trained. The nature of the program was supposed to be to bringin the "best
and brightest".
The ITAAıs studies were total fabrications. There is not now, nor has
there ever been a shortage of skilled American technology workers. In
fact, there are currently hundreds of thousands of qualified and
unemployed American technology workers. H1B is really a sneaky way for the
government to bring cheap foreign labor into the US for these big
companies. In fact, many of the workers they bring in are not the best and
brightest, and are in fact, less qualified than many unemployed Americans.
But they get hired because they work for 35% less on average.
I was a computer programmer for 13 years, and a manager for 8. These
people were hired into my company. I budgeted their meager salaries and
meaningless pay raises. I know what Iım talking about. You are talking
out your ass.
The ITAAıs president is a guy named Harris Miller. I hope there is a very
special place in hell for Mr. Harris Miller.
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| | From: | Malcolm Weir | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:47:50 -0800 |
|
|
| On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:42:56 -0500, heywood@jablome.com (Heywood
Jablome) wrote:
>>Because they work 35% cheaper than their American counterparts, on
>>average.
>
>>That's the *overseas*, outsource number, moron!
>
>Once again, you show your total ignorance. Indian programmers who are
>imported into the US and work here, in the hopes of getting a green card,
>make 35% less than their American counterparts, on average.
Your demonstrate your moronicity, again.
H1 visas are called "temporary workers". They aren't immigrants, and
the number of H1s issued each year is controlled by the government.
H1s can be valid for no more than 3 years with one 2 year extension (5
years max).
Being physically in the USA with an H1 makes absolutely NO difference
to the green card process.
Moron.
[ Snip ]
>Far as H1B, youıre once again talking out your ass about stuff you have no
>clue on. Hereıs the story on H1B:
No, that's crap:
>The organization known as the ITAA (The Information Technology Association
>of America) is the bunch of liars behind H1B.
Nope. You've confused the ITAA with "The United States Department of
Homeland Security", formerly the US DOJ.
> They are a PAC, a Political
>Action Committee, and are funded by the biggest and most powerful
>corporations in America, and the ones who have the most to gain from cheap
>foreign labor Sun Microsystems, IBM, Hewlitt Packard, Intel, Microsoft,
>and numerous others. Many of these companies have been repeatedly cited
>for immigrations violations. Sun Microsystems is one of the biggest
>offenders.
Stupid moron. The ITAA *likes* the H1 program, true. But they
aren't, and never have been, "behind" it.
Moron, you don't work with Sun, IBM, HP, etc. because you are a moron,
not because of H1s.
In 1999, per the BCIS, a whopping 300,000 H1Bs were issued. Total.
Including Canadians, Europeans, Japanese, etc.
If you think that massively impacts the US labor market, you're a
moron. Oh, wait, you *are* a moron!
[ Snip [
>I was a computer programmer for 13 years, and a manager for 8. These
>people were hired into my company. I budgeted their meager salaries and
>meaningless pay raises. I know what Iım talking about.
We've established you don't, moron.
And what's with that tense? Are you no longer a programmer? Why not?
Too stupid, obviously!
> You are talking
>out your ass.
Bzzt! Try again, moron.
>The ITAAıs president is a guy named Harris Miller. I hope there is a very
>special place in hell for Mr. Harris Miller.
Poor widdle moron.
Malc.
|
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| | From: | Vorticity Kappa | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:38:56 -0500 |
|
|
|
"Heywood Jablome" wrote in message
news:heywood-1901052242560001@pcp0010580541pcs.coatsv01.pa.comcast.net...
> >Because they work 35% cheaper than their American counterparts, on
>>average.
>
>>That's the *overseas*, outsource number, moron!
>
> Once again, you show your total ignorance. Indian programmers who are
> imported into the US and work here, in the hopes of getting a green card,
> make 35% less than their American counterparts, on average. The ones who
> work in India make next to nothing - about $400 per MONTH to do a job that
> an American would get about $50,000 per year to do. Thatıs because India
> is a third world nation, and a dirt poor country. $400 per month is a lot
> of money there. That is why American companies are all so anxious to fire
> American workers and send any job they can to be done over there. Itıs
> also why American companies are fighting with one another to buy up huge
> parcels of land in India to build state of the art work centers on for
> these people to work in.
>
> Far as H1B, youıre once again talking out your ass about stuff you have no
> clue on. Hereıs the story on H1B:
>
> The organization known as the ITAA (The Information Technology Association
> of America) is the bunch of liars behind H1B. They are a PAC, a Political
> Action Committee, and are funded by the biggest and most powerful
> corporations in America, and the ones who have the most to gain from cheap
> foreign labor Sun Microsystems, IBM, Hewlitt Packard, Intel, Microsoft,
> and numerous others. Many of these companies have been repeatedly cited
> for immigrations violations. Sun Microsystems is one of the biggest
> offenders.
>
> The ITAA is a mouthpiece for these companies. They take millions of
> dollars from these companies annually, and put it in the pockets of
> congressmen and senators, in exchange for favorable votes on issues that
> are important to them. Immigration is one such issue.
>
> In the 80ıs, the ITAA funded a bogus study that suggested there was some
> kind of shortage of skilled American technology workers, mainly in
> computer programming. So they came up with this "guest worker" program,
> which was supposed to be a temporary program to bring so-called qualified
> individuals from other countries to work here, until Americans could be
> trained. The nature of the program was supposed to be to bringin the "best
> and brightest".
>
> The ITAAıs studies were total fabrications. There is not now, nor has
> there ever been a shortage of skilled American technology workers. In
> fact, there are currently hundreds of thousands of qualified and
> unemployed American technology workers. H1B is really a sneaky way for the
> government to bring cheap foreign labor into the US for these big
> companies. In fact, many of the workers they bring in are not the best and
> brightest, and are in fact, less qualified than many unemployed Americans.
> But they get hired because they work for 35% less on average.
>
> I was a computer programmer for 13 years, and a manager for 8. These
> people were hired into my company. I budgeted their meager salaries and
> meaningless pay raises. I know what Iım talking about. You are talking
> out your ass.
>
> The ITAAıs president is a guy named Harris Miller. I hope there is a very
> special place in hell for Mr. Harris Miller.
Wassamatta white boy, can't stand the competition? Techies are fungible.
Live with it.
--
VK
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| | From: | DonSideB | | Subject: | Re: How to profitably help Tsunami victim | | Date: | 18 Jan 2005 01:05:33 GMT |
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>On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:21:53 -0500, heywood@jablome.com (Heywood
>Jablome) wrote:
>
>
>>But on another note, why does the US always rush to help every other
>>nation on earth, whatever thier problems, when we havew so many damn
>>problems of our own, right here?
>
Because it's who we are.
--
don
Someone has to die young for the human species to evolve,
It might as well be people I don't like.
SSBB Diplomatic Corps: Tidewater Virginia
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