http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp

Thought for today:

I used to love having a video recorder. If I was going to be out, and
there was something I wanted to watch, I would simply tape it to watch
later. That I almost never actually watched the program I had taped
did not matter. I'd taped it, and so didn't feel like I'd missed it.

Now, many years later, I have a DVR TIVO thing. It's wonderful. It
automatically records things that I think I might one day want to
watch, while also, just to be helpful, recording things it thinks I
might want to watch but I don't. And then . and this is the good bit
.. I don't watch any of them. But I no longer have the vague feeling
that I'm missing out on things. Tivo: it's watching TV so I don't have
to...

(p.s. MirrorMask looks really really cool. Why can't we have a .con
at Sundance!)

--
Scott http://www.pink-triangle.org/scott
AOL IM: CorwinScot YahooIM: CycleMuscle

"Stand firm for what you believe in until or unless logic or experience prove
you wrong. Remember, when the emperor looks naked the emperor is naked. The
truth and a lie are not sort of the same thing. And there's no aspect, no
facet, no moment of life that can't be improved with pizza." -- Daria

From:	Mike McKinley
Subject:	Re: Today's random TIVO blog-thought
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:43:53 -0600

Scott Safier wrote:
> http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp
> Thought for today:
> I used to love having a video recorder. If I was going to be out, and
> there was something I wanted to watch, I would simply tape it to watch
> later. That I almost never actually watched the program I had taped
> did not matter. I'd taped it, and so didn't feel like I'd missed it.
> Now, many years later, I have a DVR TIVO thing. It's wonderful. It
> automatically records things that I think I might one day want to
> watch, while also, just to be helpful, recording things it thinks I
> might want to watch but I don't. And then . and this is the good bit
> . I don't watch any of them. But I no longer have the vague feeling
> that I'm missing out on things. Tivo: it's watching TV so I don't have
> to...
> (p.s. MirrorMask looks really really cool. Why can't we have a .con
> at Sundance!)

Gurl, you miss out on a lot and it ain't on TIVO.

From:	Michael Palmer
Subject:	Re: Today's random TIVO blog-thought
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 03:21:18 GMT

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:59:41 -0000, in soc.motss, Scott Safier

wrote:

>http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp
>
>Thought for today:
>
>I used to love having a video recorder. If I was going to be out, and
>there was something I wanted to watch, I would simply tape it to watch
>later. That I almost never actually watched the program I had taped
>did not matter. I'd taped it, and so didn't feel like I'd missed it.
>
>Now, many years later, I have a DVR TIVO thing. It's wonderful. It
>automatically records things that I think I might one day want to
>watch, while also, just to be helpful, recording things it thinks I
>might want to watch but I don't. And then . and this is the good bit
>. I don't watch any of them. But I no longer have the vague feeling
>that I'm missing out on things. Tivo: it's watching TV so I don't have
>to...

and compiling a record of your recording habits for the Department of
Homeland Security.

--
Michael Palmer
Claremont, California
mpalmer@panix.com

From:	David W. Fenton
Subject:	Re: Today's random TIVO blog-thought
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:12:29 GMT

mpalmer@panix.com (Michael Palmer) wrote in
news:41f1c461.222677625@news.panix.com:

> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:59:41 -0000, in soc.motss, Scott Safier
> wrote:
>
>>http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp
>>
>>Thought for today:
>>
>>I used to love having a video recorder. If I was going to be out,
>>and there was something I wanted to watch, I would simply tape it
>>to watch later. That I almost never actually watched the program I
>>had taped did not matter. I'd taped it, and so didn't feel like
>>I'd missed it.
>>
>>Now, many years later, I have a DVR TIVO thing. It's wonderful. It
>>automatically records things that I think I might one day want to
>>watch, while also, just to be helpful, recording things it thinks
>>I might want to watch but I don't. And then . and this is the good
>>bit . I don't watch any of them. But I no longer have the vague
>>feeling that I'm missing out on things. Tivo: it's watching TV so
>>I don't have to...
>
> and compiling a record of your recording habits for the Department
> of Homeland Security.

TiVo doesn't work that way. It collects only aggregate data,
untraceable back to the original source.

And I'm *glad* it's being collected, since my viewing habits are a
big raspberry to the entire primetime network schedule (with the
exception of West Wing and ER).

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

From:	Michael Palmer
Subject:	Re: Today's random TIVO blog-thought
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:11:42 GMT

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:12:29 GMT, in soc.motss, "David W. Fenton"
wrote:

>mpalmer@panix.com (Michael Palmer) wrote in
>news:41f1c461.222677625@news.panix.com:
>
>> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:59:41 -0000, in soc.motss, Scott Safier
>> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp
>>>
>>>Thought for today:
>>>
>>>I used to love having a video recorder. If I was going to be out,
>>>and there was something I wanted to watch, I would simply tape it
>>>to watch later. That I almost never actually watched the program I
>>>had taped did not matter. I'd taped it, and so didn't feel like
>>>I'd missed it.
>>>
>>>Now, many years later, I have a DVR TIVO thing. It's wonderful. It
>>>automatically records things that I think I might one day want to
>>>watch, while also, just to be helpful, recording things it thinks
>>>I might want to watch but I don't. And then . and this is the good
>>>bit . I don't watch any of them. But I no longer have the vague
>>>feeling that I'm missing out on things. Tivo: it's watching TV so
>>>I don't have to...
>>
>> and compiling a record of your recording habits for the Department
>> of Homeland Security.
>
>TiVo doesn't work that way. It collects only aggregate data,
>untraceable back to the original source.

However, it has the technology to collect personally identifiable
data, and while the USA PATRIOT Act does not specifically authorize
surveillance of TiVo or other multi-function electronic devices, the
DOJ's expansive interpretation of the provisions of the act permits
Homeland Security, without probable cause, to force TiVo to collect
and disclose this information, at the same time forbidding TiVo from
revealing that it is doing so. Surveillance of multi-function devices
such as TiVo is specifically permitted by Patriot II, which the wimps
in Congress will probably pass sometime before the temporary
provisions of the original act sunset at the end of this year
(http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11835&c=206).

--
Michael Palmer
Claremont, California
mpalmer@panix.com

From:	David W. Fenton
Subject:	Re: Today's random TIVO blog-thought
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:34:29 GMT

mpalmer@panix.com (Michael Palmer) wrote in
news:41f34762.321751781@news.panix.com:

> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:12:29 GMT, in soc.motss, "David W. Fenton"
> wrote:
>
>>mpalmer@panix.com (Michael Palmer) wrote in
>>news:41f1c461.222677625@news.panix.com:
>>
>>> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:59:41 -0000, in soc.motss, Scott Safier
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp
>>>>
>>>>Thought for today:
>>>>
>>>>I used to love having a video recorder. If I was going to be
>>>>out, and there was something I wanted to watch, I would simply
>>>>tape it to watch later. That I almost never actually watched the
>>>>program I had taped did not matter. I'd taped it, and so didn't
>>>>feel like I'd missed it.
>>>>
>>>>Now, many years later, I have a DVR TIVO thing. It's wonderful.
>>>>It automatically records things that I think I might one day
>>>>want to watch, while also, just to be helpful, recording things
>>>>it thinks I might want to watch but I don't. And then . and this
>>>>is the good bit . I don't watch any of them. But I no longer
>>>>have the vague feeling that I'm missing out on things. Tivo:
>>>>it's watching TV so I don't have to...
>>>
>>> and compiling a record of your recording habits for the
>>> Department of Homeland Security.
>>
>>TiVo doesn't work that way. It collects only aggregate data,
>>untraceable back to the original source.
>
> However, it has the technology to collect personally identifiable
> data, . . .

How do you know that? Do you know the specifics of the routines that
run when the TiVo contacts the mother ship to download programming
data? It may very well be that all indentifiable user information is
stripped *before* the data goes up the wire. If that's the case, the
only way for TiVo to reveal the information would be for them to be
forced to reprogram their client-side upload program to collect the
information.

While I am not naive about the situation were are in with regard to
the Patriot Act, I doubt we are yet at the point where courts would
order companies to do such a thing.

> . . . and while the USA PATRIOT Act does not specifically
> authorize surveillance of TiVo or other multi-function electronic
> devices, the DOJ's expansive interpretation of the provisions of
> the act permits Homeland Security, without probable cause, to
> force TiVo to collect and disclose this information, at the same
> time forbidding TiVo from revealing that it is doing so.
> Surveillance of multi-function devices such as TiVo is
> specifically permitted by Patriot II, which the wimps in Congress
> will probably pass sometime before the temporary provisions of the
> original act sunset at the end of this year
> (http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11835&c=206).

If you're paranoid, don't subscribe to the TiVo listings.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

From:	Michael Palmer
Subject:	Re: Today's random TIVO blog-thought
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:30:50 GMT

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:34:29 GMT, in soc.motss, "David W. Fenton"
wrote:

>mpalmer@panix.com (Michael Palmer) wrote in
>news:41f34762.321751781@news.panix.com:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:12:29 GMT, in soc.motss, "David W. Fenton"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>mpalmer@panix.com (Michael Palmer) wrote in
>>>news:41f1c461.222677625@news.panix.com:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:59:41 -0000, in soc.motss, Scott Safier
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp
>>>>>
>>>>>Thought for today:
>>>>>
>>>>>I used to love having a video recorder. If I was going to be
>>>>>out, and there was something I wanted to watch, I would simply
>>>>>tape it to watch later. That I almost never actually watched the
>>>>>program I had taped did not matter. I'd taped it, and so didn't
>>>>>feel like I'd missed it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, many years later, I have a DVR TIVO thing. It's wonderful.
>>>>>It automatically records things that I think I might one day
>>>>>want to watch, while also, just to be helpful, recording things
>>>>>it thinks I might want to watch but I don't. And then . and this
>>>>>is the good bit . I don't watch any of them. But I no longer
>>>>>have the vague feeling that I'm missing out on things. Tivo:
>>>>>it's watching TV so I don't have to...
>>>>
>>>> and compiling a record of your recording habits for the
>>>> Department of Homeland Security.
>>>
>>>TiVo doesn't work that way. It collects only aggregate data,
>>>untraceable back to the original source.
>>
>> However, it has the technology to collect personally identifiable
>> data, . . .
>
>How do you know that? Do you know the specifics of the routines that
>run when the TiVo contacts the mother ship to download programming
>data? It may very well be that all indentifiable user information is
>stripped *before* the data goes up the wire. If that's the case, the
>only way for TiVo to reveal the information would be for them to be
>forced to reprogram their client-side upload program to collect the
>information.

Possible. But it's equally possible that at some point in the
transaction the TiVo sends the mother ship a code unique to that box,
to enable the mother ship to confirm that the holder of that box is
paid up and entitled to receive programming. In that case it's a
simple enough matter to associate the code number with a specific
individual.

>While I am not naive about the situation were are in with regard to
>the Patriot Act, I doubt we are yet at the point where courts would
>order companies to do such a thing.

Investigations under the USA PATRIOT Act don't necessarily go through
state or the usual federal courts. The investigating agency can claim
that the investigation is terrorism-related, and take the matter
before a FISA court, which is *required* to approve the request, and
whose proceedings are secret.

>> . . . and while the USA PATRIOT Act does not specifically
>> authorize surveillance of TiVo or other multi-function electronic
>> devices, the DOJ's expansive interpretation of the provisions of
>> the act permits Homeland Security, without probable cause, to
>> force TiVo to collect and disclose this information, at the same
>> time forbidding TiVo from revealing that it is doing so.
>> Surveillance of multi-function devices such as TiVo is
>> specifically permitted by Patriot II, which the wimps in Congress
>> will probably pass sometime before the temporary provisions of the
>> original act sunset at the end of this year
>> (http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11835&c=206).
>
>If you're paranoid, don't subscribe to the TiVo listings.

It't not your paranoia that's important here, it's the government's.
You may not think there's anything subversive about watching Maher,
Stewart, and Xena and Buffy reruns, but if someone in DOJ thinks there
is, DOJ, without your knowledge and without probable cause, can get a
FISA court order to monitor all your electronic communications.

--
Michael Palmer
Claremont, California
mpalmer@panix.com

From:	Usenet Posting
Subject:	Re: Today's random TIVO blog-thought
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 04:48:13 GMT

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:30:50 GMT, mpalmer@panix.com (Michael Palmer)
wrote:

>>If you're paranoid, don't subscribe to the TiVo listings.
>
>It't not your paranoia that's important here, it's the government's.
>You may not think there's anything subversive about watching Maher,
>Stewart, and Xena and Buffy reruns, but if someone in DOJ thinks there
>is, DOJ, without your knowledge and without probable cause, can get a
>FISA court order to monitor all your electronic communications.

As I understand it this is correct. I think where it gets a little
murky is how this would translate to action against you. I'm not
saying it can't but I think that whole area is unclear.

--
The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
--Brian L.

From:	Ken Rudolph
Subject:	Re: Today's random TIVO blog-thought
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:07:45 -0800

Michael Palmer wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:59:41 -0000, in soc.motss, Scott Safier
> wrote:
But I no longer have the vague feeling
>>that I'm missing out on things. Tivo: it's watching TV so I don't have
>>to...
>
>
> and compiling a record of your recording habits for the Department of
> Homeland Security.

Well, they're welcome to my tv watching habits...if they're actually
playing Big Brother in every TiVo household. After all, what can
they do to me for watching what I watch? Jail me for my lousy taste
in shlocky WB teen soaps? Blackmail me for watching American Idol?
I put all that out publicly on the internet anyway.

Being a Nielsen family has to be just as "dangerous"; and I get the
feeling that those people enjoy their power and don't worry that
Bush's Gestapo is going to knock at their door.

--Ken Rudolph

From:	Robert S. Coren
Subject:	Re: Today's random TIVO blog-thought
Date:	21 Jan 2005 23:33:59 -0500

In article ,
Ken Rudolph wrote:
>Michael Palmer wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:59:41 -0000, in soc.motss, Scott Safier
>> wrote:
>But I no longer have the vague feeling
>>>that I'm missing out on things. Tivo: it's watching TV so I don't have
>>>to...
>>
>>
>> and compiling a record of your recording habits for the Department of
>> Homeland Security.
>
>Well, they're welcome to my tv watching habits...if they're actually
>playing Big Brother in every TiVo household. After all, what can
>they do to me for watching what I watch? Jail me for my lousy taste
>in shlocky WB teen soaps? Blackmail me for watching American Idol?
> I put all that out publicly on the internet anyway.

I wonder if we should worry because our TiVo records every West Wing
episode it can find. It's hard to imagine anyone in the Bush
administration not finding that show threatening.
--
---Robert Coren (coren@panix.com)------------------------------------
"The disgruntled divas were grumpy."
--R.K. (Boston-area classical radio host)