The chat room & noticebaord at the website 'Homecoming Revolution'
seems to be in free spin at the moment, so I'll try here..

Are there folk out here who have returned to SA from the UK with
(young) kids? A particular concern I have is regarding education.

One issue is the difference in school starting age between UK and SA.
My two will be 6 and 9 this year (so the little one is already in her
second year) - whereas the starting age in SA is year of turning 7 (?).
Anyone had experieces good/bad of putting their kids back into the
school system and the kids being the youngest in an older class or
repeating earlier years?

How are any parents of kids finding the decision of some of the
Universities not to recognise matric from 2008 impacting on how their
kids see a future in 3ary education?

As a POM that returned to university in SA (1996-98) I found that the
quality of the teaching I had there far better than what I see new
graduates from UK universities starting work with over here with and at
present would much rather see us taking on SA graduates than my native
POMS - alas most I see are doing transient jobs on 2 or 4 year visas.
I do miss Stellenbosch...

From:	Lwt Sculler
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	20 Jan 2005 14:46:22 -0800

FLIP A COIN AND TAKE YOUR CHANCES...

From:	spizz
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:10:54 +0200

> The chat room & noticebaord at the website 'Homecoming Revolution'
> seems to be in free spin at the moment, so I'll try here..
>
> Are there folk out here who have returned to SA from the UK with
> (young) kids? A particular concern I have is regarding education.
>
> One issue is the difference in school starting age between UK and SA.
> My two will be 6 and 9 this year (so the little one is already in her
> second year) - whereas the starting age in SA is year of turning 7 (?).
> Anyone had experieces good/bad of putting their kids back into the
> school system and the kids being the youngest in an older class or
> repeating earlier years?
>
> How are any parents of kids finding the decision of some of the
> Universities not to recognise matric from 2008 impacting on how their
> kids see a future in 3ary education?
>
> As a POM that returned to university in SA (1996-98) I found that the
> quality of the teaching I had there far better than what I see new
> graduates from UK universities starting work with over here with and at
> present would much rather see us taking on SA graduates than my native
> POMS - alas most I see are doing transient jobs on 2 or 4 year visas.
> I do miss Stellenbosch...
>

My kids are 10 and 8 and started school in SA last September after moving
from Scotland. They have settled in very well and we find the work is of a
similar standard to that they were doing in the UK, even though they are in
Grade 5 and 3, rather than P6 and 4. So I'm not sure if the extra year at
school in the UK was spent twiddling their thumbs or the SA'n kids crammed
in 2 years of work in Grade 1. The way we looked at it was that if the SA'n
kids were a bit behind then it would be less pressure on our kids and
perhaps make the move a bit easier for them.

Good luck and welcome home.

Spizz

From:	Baldie
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	21 Jan 2005 14:09:12 -0800

Spizz - can I ask if your positive experiences are in the state or
fully private education system?

From:	Moira de Swardt
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 07:24:20 +0200

"Baldie" wrote in message

> Spizz - can I ask if your positive experiences are in the state or
> fully private education system?

There are quite a few government schools which are offering
excellent education, but these schools are running in the region of
R12000 a year at high school level, and not too much under that at
primary school level.

There are some private schools which are appalling.

Moira, the Faerie Godmother

From:	spizz
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:48:32 +0200

> Spizz - can I ask if your positive experiences are in the state or
> fully private education system?
>

State school. We live in Swellendam so things maybe different in a bigger
town, but even though the town is 99% Afrikaans, the school is dual medium
and the teachers are very supportive. My kids are starting to pick up a few
Afrikaans words and sentences and their work is tailored to suit. It's hard
to know if this is indicative but we are very pleased at how things have
gone so far.

Spizz

From:	Skokkie
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:44:20 +0200

"spizz" wrote in message
news:35f3tmF4mmnj6U1@individual.net...
> > Spizz - can I ask if your positive experiences are in the state or
> > fully private education system?
> >
>
> State school. We live in Swellendam so things maybe different in a bigger
> town, but even though the town is 99% Afrikaans, the school is dual medium
> and the teachers are very supportive. My kids are starting to pick up a
few
> Afrikaans words and sentences and their work is tailored to suit. It's
hard
> to know if this is indicative but we are very pleased at how things have
> gone so far.
>
> Spizz
>

My Kids have been doing rather well in SA schools - one has since graduated
uni with a BSc from Natal Uni and the other got a BComm in UK but went to
school here. Another kid was kept back at school for two years, but this is
a good thing because he is retarded. I only have one more to get out and he
seems to be doing well.

Oh - yes they are all in private schools

From:	iqhude
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	22 Jan 2005 10:06:10 -0800

Skokkie wrote:
>
> I think that POMME was an Aussie acronym for something like Prisoner
of
> Mother England or something

Never could understand that. Always thought the aussies were the
prisoners of mother england.

iqhude

From:	Skokkie
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:06:08 +0200

"iqhude" wrote in message
news:1106417170.813259.13920@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Skokkie wrote:
> >
> > I think that POMME was an Aussie acronym for something like Prisoner
> of
> > Mother England or something
>
> Never could understand that. Always thought the aussies were the
> prisoners of mother england.
>
> iqhude

Whatever! - the Aussies apparently used it to refer to a new arrival I am
actully unsure of the complete origins so cannot really comment further

From:	Peter H.M. Brooks
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:43:14 +0200

iqhude wrote:
> Skokkie wrote:
>
>>I think that POMME was an Aussie acronym for something like Prisoner
>
> of
>
>>Mother England or something
>
>
> Never could understand that. Always thought the aussies were the
> prisoners of mother england.
>
I forget who it was who first commented to Oz immigration when asked if
he had a criminal record, 'I didn't realise it was still required'.

--
It is an unalterable law that people who claim to care about the human
race are utterly indifferent to the sufferings of individuals - Quinten
Crisp, Resident Alien
* TagZilla 0.057 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

From:	Moira de Swardt
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:12:44 +0200

"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message

> I forget who it was who first commented to Oz immigration when
asked if
> he had a criminal record, 'I didn't realise it was still
required'.

I know someone who applied for immigration, made that comment and
had their application turned down. Unknown whether it was the
comment that did it.

Moira, the Faerie Godmother

From:	Peter H.M. Brooks
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:33:38 +0200

Moira de Swardt wrote:
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
>
>
>>I forget who it was who first commented to Oz immigration when
>
> asked if
>
>>he had a criminal record, 'I didn't realise it was still
>
> required'.
>
> I know someone who applied for immigration, made that comment and
> had their application turned down. Unknown whether it was the
> comment that did it.
>
It might well have helped - Ozzies probably prefer people who have new
jokes and new insults to enrich their supply.

--
"There was never so mekill myschefe, robbry, spoiling and vengeance in
Scotland than there is nowe..which I praye our Lord God to continewe." -
Lord Thomas Dacre, quoted by George MacDonald Fraser in 'The Candlemass
Road'
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From:	Peter H.M. Brooks
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:58:31 +0200

Baldie wrote:
>
>
> As a POM
>
I don't think that 'pom' is an acronym - what could it be an acronym of?
I understand it to be a contraction of 'pommy' (mentioned in the OED, as
'origin obscure', though found in the phrase 'pommy bastard' and the
word 'pommyland'). Though the OED has no origin for 'pommy', I thought
that it came from pomegranate, not in reference to Persephone, but to
the complexion following brief exposure to colonial sun.

--
"Perhaps I intended you to say so, but I meant self-command. You had,
somehow or other, broken bounds yesterday, and run away from your own
management; but to-day you are got back again--and as I cannot be always
with you, it is best to believe your temper under your own command
rather than mine." -- Emma, Jane Austen
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From:	Slow Eddy
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:22:01 +0000

Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:

> Baldie wrote:
>>
>>
>> As a POM
> >
> I don't think that 'pom' is an acronym - what could it be an acronym of?
> I understand it to be a contraction of 'pommy' (mentioned in the OED, as
> 'origin obscure', though found in the phrase 'pommy bastard' and the
> word 'pommyland'). Though the OED has no origin for 'pommy', I thought
> that it came from pomegranate, not in reference to Persephone, but to
> the complexion following brief exposure to colonial sun.
>
MAYBE HE'S JUST SHOUTING IT?

--

Slow Eddy

From:	Skokkie
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:39:25 +0200

"Slow Eddy" wrote in message
news:6o5usc.l71.ln@verdun.local...
> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>
> > Baldie wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> As a POM
> > >
> > I don't think that 'pom' is an acronym - what could it be an acronym of?
> > I understand it to be a contraction of 'pommy' (mentioned in the OED, as
> > 'origin obscure', though found in the phrase 'pommy bastard' and the
> > word 'pommyland'). Though the OED has no origin for 'pommy', I thought
> > that it came from pomegranate, not in reference to Persephone, but to
> > the complexion following brief exposure to colonial sun.
> >
> MAYBE HE'S JUST SHOUTING IT?
>
> --
>
> Slow Eddy

I think that POMME was an Aussie acronym for something like Prisoner of
Mother England or something - I heard some Aussies discussing it once but
unfortunnately paid it very little attention - as one normally does when
Aussies are a talkin crap.

From:	Slow Eddy
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:55:27 +0000

Skokkie wrote:

>
> "Slow Eddy" wrote in message
> news:6o5usc.l71.ln@verdun.local...
>> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>>
>> > Baldie wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As a POM
>> > >
>> > I don't think that 'pom' is an acronym - what could it be an acronym
>> > of? I understand it to be a contraction of 'pommy' (mentioned in the
>> > OED, as 'origin obscure', though found in the phrase 'pommy bastard'
>> > and the word 'pommyland'). Though the OED has no origin for 'pommy', I
>> > thought that it came from pomegranate, not in reference to Persephone,
>> > but to the complexion following brief exposure to colonial sun.
>> >
>> MAYBE HE'S JUST SHOUTING IT?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Slow Eddy
>
> I think that POMME was an Aussie acronym for something like Prisoner of
> Mother England or something - I heard some Aussies discussing it once but
> unfortunnately paid it very little attention - as one normally does when
> Aussies are a talkin crap.

I've heard something similar, and paid a similar amount of attention to it.
I'm not very fascinated with acronyms, I'm afraid. I STILL LIKE THE
SHOUTING THEORY BETTER !!!

--

Slow Eddy

From:	Skokkie
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:42:13 +0200

"Slow Eddy" wrote in message
news:b0i0tc.d711.ln@verdun.local...
> Skokkie wrote:
>
> >
> > "Slow Eddy" wrote in message
> > news:6o5usc.l71.ln@verdun.local...
> >> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
> >>
> >> > Baldie wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> As a POM
> >> > >
> >> > I don't think that 'pom' is an acronym - what could it be an acronym
> >> > of? I understand it to be a contraction of 'pommy' (mentioned in the
> >> > OED, as 'origin obscure', though found in the phrase 'pommy bastard'
> >> > and the word 'pommyland'). Though the OED has no origin for 'pommy',
I
> >> > thought that it came from pomegranate, not in reference to
Persephone,
> >> > but to the complexion following brief exposure to colonial sun.
> >> >
> >> MAYBE HE'S JUST SHOUTING IT?
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Slow Eddy
> >
> > I think that POMME was an Aussie acronym for something like Prisoner of
> > Mother England or something - I heard some Aussies discussing it once
but
> > unfortunnately paid it very little attention - as one normally does when
> > Aussies are a talkin crap.
>
> I've heard something similar, and paid a similar amount of attention to
it.
> I'm not very fascinated with acronyms, I'm afraid. I STILL LIKE THE
> SHOUTING THEORY BETTER !!!
>
> --
>
> Slow Eddy

Prick On Migratory Mission ???
Judging by the number of Aussies that seem to be abroad, leaving their
mother country despite the fact that there is no persecution or Aff action,
I would say that the term should apply to them as Prick On Migratory Mission
In England

Why do so many Aussies leave Oz despite the fact that they have a relatively
stable government and have repressed their aboriginal natives almost as well
as the Merkins. It is because they cannot stand each other's company? Is it
actually a really kak place but they are too patriotic to tell.?
Many people attribute their intellectuality to the effects of years of
drinking Fosters lager. They say that it is made from water that was cursed
by the Aborigines so it rots the brain. Others say that it is vegemnite that
does it. The most credible story is that their mothers drop them on their
heads as newborns and if they survive they can join the tribe.

From:	Peter H.M. Brooks
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:00:18 +0200

Slow Eddy wrote:
> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>
>
>>Baldie wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>As a POM
>>
>> >
>>I don't think that 'pom' is an acronym - what could it be an acronym of?
>>I understand it to be a contraction of 'pommy' (mentioned in the OED, as
>>'origin obscure', though found in the phrase 'pommy bastard' and the
>>word 'pommyland'). Though the OED has no origin for 'pommy', I thought
>>that it came from pomegranate, not in reference to Persephone, but to
>>the complexion following brief exposure to colonial sun.
>>
>
> MAYBE HE'S JUST SHOUTING IT?
>
That is also a possibility.

--
The creed which accepts as the foundation of morals, Utility, or the
Greatest Happiness Principle, holds that actions are right in proportion
as they tend to promote happiness, wrong as they tend to produce the
reverse of happiness. -- J.S.Mill Chapter II, Utilitarianism
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From:	Ferdi Greyling
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:19:19 +0200

On 20 Jan 2005 14:32:10 -0800, "Baldie"
wrote:

<<>How are any parents of kids finding the decision of some of the
>Universities not to recognise matric from 2008 >>

This is news.

From:	Moira de Swardt
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:05:34 +0200

"Ferdi Greyling" wrote in message
> On 20 Jan 2005 14:32:10 -0800, "Baldie"
> wrote:

> <<>How are any parents of kids finding the decision of some of the
> >Universities not to recognise matric from 2008 >>

> This is news.

It's been widely reported.

Moira, the Faerie Godmother

From:	Ferdi Greyling
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:04:42 +0200

From:	Ferdi Greyling
Subject:	Re: Returning to SA from UK... kids & education
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:16:52 +0200

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:05:34 +0200, "Moira de Swardt"
wrote:

<<>"Ferdi Greyling" wrote in message
>> On 20 Jan 2005 14:32:10 -0800, "Baldie"
>> wrote:
>
>> <<>How are any parents of kids finding the decision of some of the
>> >Universities not to recognise matric from 2008 >>
>
>> This is news.
>
>It's been widely reported.
>
>Moira, the Faerie Godmother>>

It seems it was reported in the Pretoria News and the Cape Times - and
then denied by the universities.

THis is what I found:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BENCHMARKING:The Facts and The Context

BENCHMARKING: THE FACTS AND THE CONTEXT

A lot of dust was raised in the media last week over a system of
benchmarking for prospective university students – but unfortunately
most of the coverage was inaccurate. Particularly troubling was the
ignorance displayed of the context – both national and international –
in which university benchmarking should most properly be viewed.

Let’s begin with the central inaccuracy. The assertion that the SA
Universities Vice-Chancellors Association (SAUVCA) is advocating a
university entrance test because ‘matric is not good enough’ is most
emphatically incorrect.

For a start, SAUVCA is not advocating a single entrance test.
Secondly, the existing Senior Certificate system is being phased out,
not by SAUVCA, but by the national Department of Education and will be
replaced (in 2008) by a Further Education and Training Certificate
(FETC) as the exit certificate from secondary schooling, and as the
minimum requirement for advancement to higher education.

What has happened to bring the activities of higher education
institutions so forcefully to the attention of the media?

In a nutshell: a recent resolution that all higher education
institutions will now work together in the formulation of a national
set of benchmarks. Individual institutions will then use the benchmark
test results to establish their own cut-off points for selection and
placement. It is proposed that the tests be based on core competencies
essential for success in higher education.

But why the sudden media interest?

Benchmarking of one kind or another has been going on in South African
universities for at least two decades. In the 1980s, when some
mainstream white universities began to admit students of other races,
the old admissions criteria of matric exemption plus various
combinations of ‘matric points’ had to be revised. For students
emerging from the relatively well administered and financed white
school system, the old criteria based on school achievement were
retained. For students from the profoundly disadvantaged ‘bantu
education’ systems, new ways of measuring potential had to be
introduced. Benchmarking tests were developed for this purpose.

Tests were obviously also used to determine entrance suitability to
the various bridging and developmental programmes that proliferated
through the higher education sector during the last years of
apartheid.

Today, all South African universities have followed the international
trend of using independent tests to augment school results when making
decisions about the university preparedness of prospective students.
The combination of information is used to place students into
appropriate academic programmes and to identify aspects in specific
student profiles that require special development attention.

This dual approach is increasing access to and success at higher
education institutions, most particularly for students from
educationally disadvantaged backgrounds. At one university, for
example, half the annual intake of first-year students is admitted on
the basis of the combination of school and institutional test results.
The vast majority of these students would not have been admitted at
all on the basis of their school results alone. Benchmarking tests
have thus played a powerful role in increasing access to higher
education for black students.

So what’s new in the current situation?

The factual answer is significant. For the first time in South Africa,
the new initiative paves the way for a combination of benchmarking
expertise from a score of institutions into a set of national
benchmarking tests.

What are the practical implications?

At the most basic level, many prospective students apply for admission
to more than one institution. Currently, this means that they sit for
a number of institution-based tests. With a system of national
benchmarking, the process will be simplified.

A crucially important reality is that the process of establishing
national benchmarks and tests has only just begun. It is the intention
of SAUVCA to encourage broad participation in their design – most
particularly from the national Department of Education. It follows,
therefore, that the final version of the various tests could well
differ materially from the sector-based proposals.

The proposed timing of the introduction of the national benchmark
tests is also significant. Not only will it take several years to
develop broadly acceptable tests. More importantly, the introduction
of the new FETC school leaving system at about the same time could
provide the country’s education authorities with an opportunity to use
the benchmark tests as a useful independent tool to assess the
effectiveness of FETC. Here’s the national benchmark tests proposal in
more detail:

* Over the next three years, tests in the areas of academic
literacy and numeracy will be developed by teams drawn from all higher
education institutions;
* National benchmark levels of performance will be set, with
probable differences between universities and universities of
technology, and between degree and certificate/diploma study;
* All students applying to enter higher education will write the
national tests (instead of institution-specific tests as at present)
which will be offered several times each year;
* Students performing at or above the benchmark levels will enter
academic programmes, provided the student has also obtained the FETC.
* Students performing below the benchmark levels will be deemed to
be in need of some kind of academic support. Institutions can admit
such students, provided that the FETC has been obtained, and provided
that the institution makes public the details of the support programme
in which the student has been placed.

It is necessary to emphasise that the National Benchmark Tests
proposal is an attempt to work with the relevant authorities to
support the FETC and to ensure that it works well, particularly in the
articulation between the schooling and higher education sectors.

Indeed, there are many advantages in establishing national benchmark
tests in conjunction with the new FETC basic entry requirements. The
main ones are:

* That applicants, parents, schools, colleges and the public at
large will be clear on what the expected entry levels to higher
education institutions are and how they are assessed;
* That higher education institutions will be clear about the
competencies of their entry-level students and what needs to be
included in their support and basic curriculum programmes;
* That the secondary schooling level in the education framework
will receive useful feedback on the critical competencies required by
students to move successfully into higher education.

It should be obvious from the above that this responsible initiative
is aimed at supporting the changes to education introduced by the
Department of Education. Because benchmarking will ensure that all
stakeholders will know much more clearly what is expected when
students enter the higher education system, it has the potential to
contribute significantly to improved graduation rates, which are
currently of serious concern.

One final observation. The gross inaccuracies and ignorance of the
context of the benchmarking issue that was displayed in several
newspapers last week does nothing to dim our belief in a free press as
an essential prop of democracy. However, reporters and columnists
should remember that the freedom of the media carries with it a grave
responsibility: to be accurate and evenhanded. Let us all hope that
the recent news stories in the independent group of newspapers do not
provide the journalism benchmark of the future!

Piyushi Kotecha is CEO of the South African Universities
Vice-Chancellors Association.
20 December 2004