I went to see the latest re-make of 'The Crucible' - 'Capturing the
Friedmans'. A genuine horror film - about lynch mobs, still alive and
well and living in 1995.

I would recommend it only to anybody who might be foolish enough to
plead guilty to something that they haven't done.

The film is very well put together, a chilling documentary, but it is
not pleasant to watch.

The line that shocked me most was a judge saying 'I had no doubt that he
was guilty from the start'. In much of the world taxi drivers, bog
cleaners and pub drunks say that sort of thing, but for a judge to not
only say it, but to say it in public, on record, in a film, and not be
disbarred at once (and feel perfectly confident that she wouldn't be
disbarred for such a disgusting abuse of her position whilst admitting
to corrupting the ends of justice) makes it abundantly clear that no
sane person would wish to live in the same country as her.

Some cynics might be surprised that I can be so shocked, but, unlike
most horror films, it was all real. I am also an optimist, even of
people and places of which I despair, I have some hope.

--
O how I cried when Alice died
The day we were to have wed!
We never had our Roasted Duck
And now she's a Loaf of Bread!

At nights I weep an cannot sleep,
Moonlight to me recalls
I never saw her Waterfront
Nor she my Waterfalls
- W.H. Auden verses for 'The Dog Beneath the Skin'
* TagZilla 0.057 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

From:	Moira de Swardt
Subject:	Re: The Crucible
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:25:39 +0200

"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
..
> I went to see the latest re-make of 'The Crucible' - 'Capturing
the
> Friedmans'. A genuine horror film - about lynch mobs, still alive
and
> well and living in 1995.

> I would recommend it only to anybody who might be foolish enough
to
> plead guilty to something that they haven't done.

> The film is very well put together, a chilling documentary, but it
is
> not pleasant to watch.

Doesn't sound like anything I want to see at the moment. Is it on
at the Nouveau theatres? I notice that not all movies go to all
cities.

> The line that shocked me most was a judge saying 'I had no doubt
that he
> was guilty from the start'. In much of the world taxi drivers, bog
> cleaners and pub drunks say that sort of thing, but for a judge to
not
> only say it, but to say it in public, on record, in a film, and
not be
> disbarred at once (and feel perfectly confident that she wouldn't
be
> disbarred for such a disgusting abuse of her position whilst
admitting
> to corrupting the ends of justice) makes it abundantly clear that
no
> sane person would wish to live in the same country as her.

To what degree can one be sure of something, and then be swayed away
from that opinion? That's probably more realistic in terms of
juristic independence. Judges are only human, after all. But most
of the good ones acknowledge that things can be proved to their
satisfaction and must be ruled on accordingly.

I do my little two plus two equals five routine to my own
satisfaction while knowing full well that I have no doubt that I
(and most people) accept fully the common wisdom that two plus two
equals four in nearly all circumstances. In other words, I have no
doubt that two plus two equals four, but where it is not "true" I
will make my "ruling" accordingly. I think most judges are
similarly (and better) able to do this.

> Some cynics might be surprised that I can be so shocked, but,
unlike
> most horror films, it was all real. I am also an optimist, even of
> people and places of which I despair, I have some hope.

That may be one the most striking differences between us. I'm
generally less likely to query motives and actions than you are, but
much more inclined to believe in the inherent sinfulness of
humankind.

Moira, the Faerie Godmother

From:	Peter H.M. Brooks
Subject:	Re: The Crucible
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:36:04 +0200

Moira de Swardt wrote:
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
>
>
>
> Doesn't sound like anything I want to see at the moment. Is it on
> at the Nouveau theatres? I notice that not all movies go to all
> cities.
>
I saw it at the Labia.
>
>
>>The line that shocked me most was a judge saying 'I had no doubt
>
> that he
>
>>was guilty from the start'. In much of the world taxi drivers, bog
>>cleaners and pub drunks say that sort of thing, but for a judge to
>
> not
>
>>only say it, but to say it in public, on record, in a film, and
>
> not be
>
>>disbarred at once (and feel perfectly confident that she wouldn't
>
> be
>
>>disbarred for such a disgusting abuse of her position whilst
>
> admitting
>
>>to corrupting the ends of justice) makes it abundantly clear that
>
> no
>
>>sane person would wish to live in the same country as her.
>
>
> To what degree can one be sure of something, and then be swayed away
> from that opinion? That's probably more realistic in terms of
> juristic independence. Judges are only human, after all. But most
> of the good ones acknowledge that things can be proved to their
> satisfaction and must be ruled on accordingly.
>
As we've discussed here recently, the job of a judge is to be
disinterested. If he has an opinion before being presented with the
evidence then he is not fit to try the case. Yes, judges are human, but,
in trying a case, they must not use intuition, prejudice, or other
preconceptions to arrive at conclusions, only the evidence presented to
them.

For any judge to declare that they have a certain opinion on a case
before getting evidence is for that judge to be declaring himself unfit
ever to judge anybody.
>
>
>>Some cynics might be surprised that I can be so shocked, but,
>
> unlike
>
>>most horror films, it was all real. I am also an optimist, even of
>>people and places of which I despair, I have some hope.
>
>
> That may be one the most striking differences between us. I'm
> generally less likely to query motives and actions than you are, but
> much more inclined to believe in the inherent sinfulness of
> humankind.
>
That's an odd difference, isn't it. I'd have thought that a pessimist
would question motives more than an optimist.

Maybe that's the difference between being an optimist and being a dupe.

--
Politics are not an instrument for effecting social change; they are
the art of making the inevitable appear to be a matter of wise human
choice. -Quentin Crisp, 'Resident Alien'
* TagZilla 0.057 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

From:	Moira de Swardt
Subject:	Re: The Crucible
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:08:00 +0200

"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
> Moira de Swardt wrote:
> > "Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message

> > Doesn't sound like anything I want to see at the moment. Is it
on
> > at the Nouveau theatres? I notice that not all movies go to all
> > cities.

> I saw it at the Labia.

Ah! We don't have such a luxury in Johannesburg.

> > That may be one the most striking differences between us. I'm
> > generally less likely to query motives and actions than you are,
but
> > much more inclined to believe in the inherent sinfulness of
> > humankind.

> That's an odd difference, isn't it. I'd have thought that a
pessimist
> would question motives more than an optimist.

I'm not a pessimist. I'm merely realistic.

> Maybe that's the difference between being an optimist and being a
dupe.

Moira, the Faerie Godmother

From:	Peter H.M. Brooks
Subject:	Re: The Crucible
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:38:37 +0200

Moira de Swardt wrote:
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
>
>>>much more inclined to believe in the inherent sinfulness of
>>>humankind.
>
>
>>That's an odd difference, isn't it. I'd have thought that a
>
> pessimist
>
>>would question motives more than an optimist.
>
>
> I'm not a pessimist. I'm merely realistic.
>
That's what they all say.

--
O how I cried when Alice died
The day we were to have wed!
We never had our Roasted Duck
And now she's a Loaf of Bread!

At nights I weep an cannot sleep,
Moonlight to me recalls
I never saw her Waterfront
Nor she my Waterfalls
- W.H. Auden verses for 'The Dog Beneath the Skin'
* TagZilla 0.057 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

From:	Nick
Subject:	Re: The Crucible
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:29:59 +0200

"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
news:csp2cl$adg$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> I went to see the latest re-make of 'The Crucible' - 'Capturing the
> Friedmans'. A genuine horror film - about lynch mobs, still alive and
> well and living in 1995.
>
> I would recommend it only to anybody who might be foolish enough to
> plead guilty to something that they haven't done.
>
> The film is very well put together, a chilling documentary, but it is
> not pleasant to watch.
>
> The line that shocked me most was a judge saying 'I had no doubt that he
> was guilty from the start'. In much of the world taxi drivers, bog
> cleaners and pub drunks say that sort of thing, but for a judge to not
> only say it, but to say it in public, on record, in a film, and not be
> disbarred at once (and feel perfectly confident that she wouldn't be
> disbarred for such a disgusting abuse of her position whilst admitting
> to corrupting the ends of justice) makes it abundantly clear that no
> sane person would wish to live in the same country as her.
>
> Some cynics might be surprised that I can be so shocked, but, unlike
> most horror films, it was all real. I am also an optimist, even of
> people and places of which I despair, I have some hope.
>
> --
> O how I cried when Alice died
> The day we were to have wed!
> We never had our Roasted Duck
> And now she's a Loaf of Bread!
>
> At nights I weep an cannot sleep,
> Moonlight to me recalls
> I never saw her Waterfront
> Nor she my Waterfalls
> - W.H. Auden verses for 'The Dog Beneath the Skin'
> * TagZilla 0.057 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

I always thought that The Crucible was where the World Snooker Championship
was played.

Nick

From:	Peter H.M. Brooks
Subject:	Re: The Crucible
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:50:45 +0200

Nick wrote:
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
> news:csp2cl$adg$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>
>
> I always thought that The Crucible was where the World Snooker Championship
> was played.
>
Yes, there is a very '70s ugly theatre in Reading so named (well 'The
Crucible Theatre') where I believe that they play snooker. There's
another 'Crucible' theatre in Sheffield.

They could both be named after Arthur Miller's play, but I think not.
The metaphor of a crucible is applied to the idea of hot-house
productions with the actors interacting in an alchemical manner to
produce gold from lead. I've always understood them to be theatres that
wish to encourage experimental productions.

--
Politics are not an instrument for effecting social change; they are
the art of making the inevitable appear to be a matter of wise human
choice. -Quentin Crisp, 'Resident Alien'
* TagZilla 0.057 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

From:	Moira de Swardt
Subject:	Re: The Crucible
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:16:31 +0200

"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message

> The metaphor of a crucible is applied to the idea of hot-house
> productions with the actors interacting in an alchemical manner to
> produce gold from lead. I've always understood them to be theatres
that
> wish to encourage experimental productions.

That's how I've always understood the word "crucible", but not
restricted to theatre, although the theatre connotations are very
strong, especially in my little world which is so dominated by the
theatre.

Moira, the Faerie Godmother

From:	Nick
Subject:	Re: The Crucible
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:39:01 +0200

"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
news:csq1n6$p9$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> Nick wrote:
> > "Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
> > news:csp2cl$adg$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> >
> >
> > I always thought that The Crucible was where the World Snooker
Championship
> > was played.
> >
> Yes, there is a very '70s ugly theatre in Reading so named (well 'The
> Crucible Theatre') where I believe that they play snooker. There's
> another 'Crucible' theatre in Sheffield.
>
> They could both be named after Arthur Miller's play, but I think not.
> The metaphor of a crucible is applied to the idea of hot-house
> productions with the actors interacting in an alchemical manner to
> produce gold from lead. I've always understood them to be theatres that
> wish to encourage experimental productions.
>

Snooker = Sheffield

Nick