The Miracle Juice i refer to is the wonderful "Accu-Clear". Let me try and
explain...

I currently have two tanks, a 100 litre and a 260 litre.

OCCUPANTS 100 LITRE:
6 neon tetras
4 male guppies
4 platties
1 suckermouth cat fish
1 algae eater

OCCUPENTS 260 LITRE
14 Lake Malawi Mbuna's (all young un's).

Anyway, when I do a water change on either tank, I normally do 40% weekly.
Afterwards, the damn cloudiness is very apparent. Three capfuls of ACCU
CLEAR in the 260, and 1.5 in the smaller tank, the water is SUPER CRYSTAL
CLEAR after only a few hours...

Anyone care to enlighten me as to how this wonderful stuff works?

Gary.
PS - No, I am not affiliated with the clever people who bring us this
wonderful bottle of pure joy and bliss..., I am a sad bugger though :)

From:	Ozdude
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Sat, 25 Dec 2004 07:27:51 +1100

"Gary" wrote in message
news:ZO_yd.6553$Ar5.3979@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Anyone care to enlighten me as to how this wonderful stuff works?
>
> Gary.
> PS - No, I am not affiliated with the clever people who bring us this
> wonderful bottle of pure joy and bliss..., I am a sad bugger though :)

As far as I am aware these products are "clumpers", that is, they cause fine
particles to clump into larger particles that the filter can deal with, or
cause to settle to the bottom.

How they do this is weird science to me, but I suspect it's got something to
do with ions and osmosis, or something like that.

Oz

From:	Gary
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:28:56 GMT

> As far as I am aware these products are "clumpers", that is, they cause
> fine particles to clump into larger particles that the filter can deal
> with, or cause to settle to the bottom.
>
> How they do this is weird science to me, but I suspect it's got something
> to do with ions and osmosis, or something like that.

Can it be bad for the fish? The bottle says not...

From:	Margolis
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:19:06 -0600

From:	Ozdude
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Sat, 25 Dec 2004 07:37:40 +1100

From:	Gary
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:39:20 GMT

> I doubt it. It may even be good for them! ;)

Coolio!
PS - Merry XMAS!

Gary.

From:	Benign Vanilla
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:03:38 -0500

"Gary" wrote in message
news:c__yd.6558$Ar5.4057@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > As far as I am aware these products are "clumpers", that is, they cause
> > fine particles to clump into larger particles that the filter can deal
> > with, or cause to settle to the bottom.
> >
> > How they do this is weird science to me, but I suspect it's got
something
> > to do with ions and osmosis, or something like that.
>
> Can it be bad for the fish? The bottle says not...

From the manufacturer...

"Compatibility: Before using Accu-Clear, make certain that the pond has
vigorous aeration, (a fountain, waterfall or aeration device) especially
during hot summer months. In summer heat, pond water contains very little
oxygen.
In sunlight, algae and submerged plants produce oxygen, and in some cases
may be the major source of oxygen in the pond. At night, however, submerged
plants and algae actually consume oxygen. Decomposing organic matter also
consumes oxygen, even after it is removed by the filter. Until the filter is
changed, decomposing organic matter may still cause the oxygen level to drop
to harmful levels if adequate aeration is not provided.
Therefore, when using Accu-Clear, especially during the warm summer months,
adequate aeration is required to keep oxygen levels healthy for your fish.
Do not shut off pond pumps or aeration devices at night! Aeration must be
provided to pond life at all times. "

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

From:	Gary
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:37:40 GMT

> "Compatibility: Before using Accu-Clear, make certain that the pond has
> vigorous aeration, (a fountain, waterfall or aeration device) especially
> during hot summer months. In summer heat, pond water contains very little
> oxygen.
> In sunlight, algae and submerged plants produce oxygen, and in some cases
> may be the major source of oxygen in the pond. At night, however,
> submerged
> plants and algae actually consume oxygen. Decomposing organic matter also
> consumes oxygen, even after it is removed by the filter. Until the filter
> is
> changed, decomposing organic matter may still cause the oxygen level to
> drop
> to harmful levels if adequate aeration is not provided.
> Therefore, when using Accu-Clear, especially during the warm summer
> months,
> adequate aeration is required to keep oxygen levels healthy for your fish.
> Do not shut off pond pumps or aeration devices at night! Aeration must be
> provided to pond life at all times. "

Amazing they dont sell it with this info intact.
Anyway, I have three power filters, rapid surface water movement and two 12"
airstones creating significant surface movement. Not sure if any of this
provides more oxygen or not.

I have no plants.

Gary.

From:	NetMax
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:17:31 -0500

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
news:33ami9F3ud5bpU1@individual.net...
>
> "Gary" wrote in message
> news:c__yd.6558$Ar5.4057@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> > As far as I am aware these products are "clumpers", that is, they
>> > cause
>> > fine particles to clump into larger particles that the filter can
>> > deal
>> > with, or cause to settle to the bottom.
>> >
>> > How they do this is weird science to me, but I suspect it's got
> something
>> > to do with ions and osmosis, or something like that.
>>
>> Can it be bad for the fish? The bottle says not...
>
> From the manufacturer...
>
> "Compatibility: Before using Accu-Clear, make certain that the pond has
> vigorous aeration, (a fountain, waterfall or aeration device)
> especially
> during hot summer months. In summer heat, pond water contains very
> little
> oxygen.
> In sunlight, algae and submerged plants produce oxygen, and in some
> cases
> may be the major source of oxygen in the pond. At night, however,
> submerged
> plants and algae actually consume oxygen. Decomposing organic matter
> also
> consumes oxygen, even after it is removed by the filter. Until the
> filter is
> changed, decomposing organic matter may still cause the oxygen level to
> drop
> to harmful levels if adequate aeration is not provided.
> Therefore, when using Accu-Clear, especially during the warm summer
> months,
> adequate aeration is required to keep oxygen levels healthy for your
> fish.
> Do not shut off pond pumps or aeration devices at night! Aeration must
> be
> provided to pond life at all times. "
>
>
> --
> BV

Thanks BV. Now read between their lines, because without Accu-Clear, all
these things are still happening, - so what has changed? Why are they
warning you about low oxygen levels with the use of a flocculent?

So flocculants either remove oxygen (nope), or they remove/inhibit
sources of oxygen (not significantly, especially at night) or they make
it more difficult for fish to breath, - so flocculants act to restrict
respiration (which in a properly aerated environment will not kill your
fish, that's encouraging ;~). The concerning part is that water already
holds very little oxygen, and because of this, fish invest a tremendous
amount of energy/effort on just breathing. The gill membranes are
actually huge, reaching the tail of a fish if unfolded (I read that).
--
www.NetMax.tk

From:	Benign Vanilla
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:13:48 -0500

"NetMax" wrote in message
news:LtXzd.12877$Tn1.394522@news20.bellglobal.com...

> Thanks BV. Now read between their lines, because without Accu-Clear, all
> these things are still happening, - so what has changed? Why are they
> warning you about low oxygen levels with the use of a flocculent?
>
> So flocculants either remove oxygen (nope), or they remove/inhibit
> sources of oxygen (not significantly, especially at night) or they make
> it more difficult for fish to breath, - so flocculants act to restrict
> respiration (which in a properly aerated environment will not kill your
> fish, that's encouraging ;~). The concerning part is that water already
> holds very little oxygen, and because of this, fish invest a tremendous
> amount of energy/effort on just breathing. The gill membranes are
> actually huge, reaching the tail of a fish if unfolded (I read that).

I've never had the need for a flocculant in my Aquarium. Even after an
overdue cleaning, I can stir the water up to opaqueness, and it clears in an
hour or so. I have used floc's in my pond, and I used tons of aeration, but
that was to keep the floculant uh...uh...floculating.

I see no need for a floc in an aquarium, and would only use it on an extreme
case in a pond.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

From:	NetMax
Subject:	Re: Miracle Juice, how does this stuff work?
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:15:57 -0500

"Gary" wrote in message
news:ZO_yd.6553$Ar5.3979@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> The Miracle Juice i refer to is the wonderful "Accu-Clear". Let me try
> and
> explain...
>
> I currently have two tanks, a 100 litre and a 260 litre.
>
> OCCUPANTS 100 LITRE:
> 6 neon tetras
> 4 male guppies
> 4 platties
> 1 suckermouth cat fish
> 1 algae eater
>
> OCCUPENTS 260 LITRE
> 14 Lake Malawi Mbuna's (all young un's).
>
>
> Anyway, when I do a water change on either tank, I normally do 40%
> weekly.
> Afterwards, the damn cloudiness is very apparent. Three capfuls of
> ACCU
> CLEAR in the 260, and 1.5 in the smaller tank, the water is SUPER
> CRYSTAL
> CLEAR after only a few hours...
>
> Anyone care to enlighten me as to how this wonderful stuff works?
>
> Gary.
> PS - No, I am not affiliated with the clever people who bring us this
> wonderful bottle of pure joy and bliss..., I am a sad bugger though :)

It's a flocculent. Somehow it temporarily coats tiny particles in the
water column so that they can get trapped inside the filter media. The
flocculent then breaks down and dissolves back into the water (I imagine
it then contributes to the dissolved compounds which are always polluting
our aquariums). Under certain conditions (ie: trapped algae spores),
when the flocculent dissolves, the trapped contaminant is then released
back into the water column, so the plan is to remove/clean or discard the
filter media while it is still full and the flocculent is still active.

Is it harmful? I haven't read any studies either way. There has been
discussions that the 'coating' might constrain gill tissue respiration,
which would seem somewhat logical. Unfortunately you will probably not
read any negative reports as all the large manufacturers make some type
of a flocculent, and they are in no hurry to cut their noses off ;~). It
might be prudent to not use it with sick fish (I wonder if it coats Ich
parasites in the water column too ? ;~).

I recommend that you don't use it as regular of maintenance. It's useful
if the in-laws will be there the next day, but regular use would (in the
best case) mask symptoms of other problems. I don't know the worst case
scenario, but generally speaking, the less chemicals you can use, the
more natural and representative the water will be for the fish (happy
fish). You can achieve the same water clarity by filtering properly imo.
--
www.NetMax.tk