On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:53:55 -0000, "pearl" wrote:

>"rick etter" wrote in message news:oEpBd.14031$RH4.3019@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>> I've posted proof of your crop deaths
>
>In organic farming - never.

Some points made by Diderot:
_________________________________________________________
Message-ID: <379569C4.499D@wcnet.net>
From: diderot
Newsgroups: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,rec.food.veg
Subject: dead-frog numbers [was: faq collateral included deaths in organic rice production]
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:33:40 -0500

"there are
two tires on each side of the combine and they are 42" wide, each
(actually there are 2 more on the back, but they track with the inside
front tire). using the same seven passes per acre, calculate the total
square footage tamped gently down by the 19,000 lb combine."

"conventional agriculture results in many more, but more 'invisible'
deaths. our conventional plot is across the road from our organic plot,
it started out with the same millions and billions of amphibian eggs.
only a few thousand frogs are harvested on the conventional side - they
were all killed off as eggs or tadpoles by agricultural chemicals."

"we could
reduce the number of visible deaths by flogging the ecology, but we
prefer life and cycle-of-life over a sterile monoculture."
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
It's always the same, *always!!!*. The only way to prevent things
from being killed, is to prevent them from living. If more eggs benefit
from life and grow into conscious beings because the benefit isn't
taken away by *icides, then more of them will be killed by something
else later.
It's the same with raising animals for food, both in regards to the
food animals and wildlife. In grazing areas, not only do the food animals
experience life but so do a greater number of wildlife than in many
crop fields.

Where there's death there is life, and the only way to eliminate death
is to eliminate life. You want to eliminate domestic animals, which is no
doubt many billions of lives. And the only way to eliminate death in crop
fields is to eliminate life there too. So instead of grazing areas with
livestock experiencing decent lives and wildlife thriving there with them,
you "ARAs" would rather see no livestock and no wildlife thriving in the
area so there would be no death. Is that to be admired? I would say no.
Your way of thinking says that an empty parking lot is ethically superior
to a healthy grazing area, simply because the livestock will be killed
and eaten. But worse still imo is that you believe the killing which does
go on in crop fields is ethically superior to healthy grazing areas, regardless
of whether or not it involves more killing and more suffering.

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sat, 1 Jan 2005 19:47:21 -0000

wrote in message news:epqdt0dhdpua96j971kql69mal00rg8jpi@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:53:55 -0000, "pearl" wrote:
>
> >"rick etter" wrote in message news:oEpBd.14031$RH4.3019@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> >> I've posted proof of your crop deaths
> >
> >In organic farming - never.
>
> Some points made by Diderot:
> _________________________________________________________
> Message-ID: <379569C4.499D@wcnet.net>
> From: diderot
> Newsgroups: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,rec.food.veg
> Subject: dead-frog numbers [was: faq collateral included deaths in organic rice production]
> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:33:40 -0500
>
> "there are
> two tires on each side of the combine and they are 42" wide, each
> (actually there are 2 more on the back, but they track with the inside
> front tire). using the same seven passes per acre, calculate the total
> square footage tamped gently down by the 19,000 lb combine."
>
> "conventional agriculture results in many more, but more 'invisible'
> deaths. our conventional plot is across the road from our organic plot,
> it started out with the same millions and billions of amphibian eggs.
> only a few thousand frogs are harvested on the conventional side - they
> were all killed off as eggs or tadpoles by agricultural chemicals."
>
> "we could
> reduce the number of visible deaths by flogging the ecology, but we
> prefer life and cycle-of-life over a sterile monoculture."

'There is an "article" circulating on the Internet that describes how
thousands of frogs and other animals are killed in the mechanized
harvesting of grain crops. This "collateral animal deaths" story is an
elaborate hoax. The author, a "Texas organic rice farmer" is a gifted
writer, but he should use his talents elsewhere.

The author's numbers describe a plague of frogs of biblical
proportions. However, it is questionable if he has even been on a rice
farm. The major point that our author has missed is that rice fields
are harvested dry. The irrigation water is drained, and the ground is
left to dry before the harvesters go out in the field (otherwise, they'd
sink in the mud). There just aren't that many amphibians in the field.

Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
are not the high speed machines described in this article.

At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we
share our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins,
we search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation centers
(mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this). After hatching,
the fledglings are raised and released back into the wild. Last year, we
rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we flood our fields to
provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring. There
are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.

We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
suggests.

--> Kent Lundberg.

Kent Lundberg
Lundberg Family Farms
http://www.lundberg.com

(via email)

> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> It's always the same, *always!!!*. The only way to prevent things
> from being killed, is to prevent them from living. If more eggs benefit
> from life and grow into conscious beings because the benefit isn't
> taken away by *icides, then more of them will be killed by something
> else later.

'Surveys by the ministry of agriculture and the British Trust
for Ornithology have shown the beneficial effects of organic
farming on wildlife. It's not difficult to see why: the pesticides
used in intensive agriculture kill many soil organisms, insects
and other larger species. They also kill plants considered to
be weeds. That means fewer food sources available for other
animals, birds and beneficial insects and it also destroys many
of their habitats.'
http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/Farming/benefits.html

'..This comprehensive European-wide literature review provides
evidence on the whole range of environmental benefits of organic
farming. It concludes that, in comparison with non-organic farming,
organic farming tends to support greater biodiversity, conserves
soil fertility and stability better, does not pose any risk of water
pollution from pesticides, results in 40-60% lower carbon dioxide
emissions per hectare, nitrous oxide and ammonia emission
potential appears to be lower, energy consumption is usually lower,
and energy efficiency is usually higher.
...'
http://www.soilassociation.org/sa/saweb.nsf/librarytitles/Briefing_Sheets05092001

'The independent research quoted in this report found substantially
greater levels of both abundance and diversity of species on the
organic farms, as outlined below:

Plants: Five times as many wild plants in arable fields, 57% more
species, and several rare and declining wild arable species found
only on organic farms.

Birds: 25% more birds at the field edge, 44% more in-field in
autumn/winter; 2.2 times as many breeding skylarks and higher
skylark breeding rates.

Invertebrates: 1.6 times as many of the arthropods that comprise
bird food; three times as many non-pest butterflies in the crop areas;
one to five times as many spider numbers and one to two times as
many spider species.

Crop pests: Significant decrease in aphid numbers; no change in
numbers of pest butterflies.

Distribution of the biodiversity benefits: Though the field boundaries
had the highest levels of wildlife, the highest increases were found
in the cropped areas of the fields.

Quality of the habitats: Both the field boundary and crop habitats
were more favourable on the organic farms. The field boundaries
had more trees, larger hedges and no spray drift.
...'
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/pn48/pn48p15b.htm

> It's the same with raising animals for food, both in regards to the
> food animals and wildlife. In grazing areas, not only do the food animals
> experience life but so do a greater number of wildlife than in many
> crop fields.

'Wyoming state biologists have estimated that one cow eats enough forage
to support 6.9 bighorn sheep, 10.8 antelope, 7.8 deer or 2.1 elk.'
http://www.organicconsumers.org/corp/cattle_grazing.cfm

'Animal Enemies

[I]n the eyes of graziers, basically there are 3 requirements for
an acceptable environment -- grass, water, and livestock to
eat and drink them. All else is questionable, if not expendable,
a possible hindrance to profit and power.

The ranching establishment's assault on the environment,
therefore, includes campaigns against a huge number and
wide variety of animals. Most of the score or so native large
mammal species in the West have been decimated by ranching,
both intentionally through slaughtering efforts and indirectly
through the harmful effects of livestock grazing and ranching
developments. Indeed, most larger and a great many smaller
animal species are in some way assailed as enemies. The
mass carnage carried out for the sake of privately owned
livestock continues today throughout the grazed 70% of the
West, including public lands, and even in adjacent ungrazed
areas.

Though definitions given by ranching advocates vary, most
animal enemies fall into 4 main subdivisions: Carnivores and
omnivores are (1) predators if able to kill a sheep, calf, or
goat. Herbivores are (2) competitors if they eat enough forage
or browse to decrease the amount available to livestock.
Many smaller animal species are (3) pests if they occur in
large enough numbers to affect production in some manner.
And a huge number of animals are considered (4) no- goods,
inherently "no good" because they are perceived as possessing
some offensive characteristic.'
http://www.apnm.org/waste_of_west/chapter4/page7.html
Next page-
http://www.apnm.org/waste_of_west/chapter4/page8.html

'Under pressure from ranchers, the U.S. government
exterminates tens of thousands of predator and "nuisance"
animals each year. In 1989, a partial list of animals killed
by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal Damage
Control Program included 86,502 coyotes, 7,158 foxes,
236 black bears, 1,220 bobcats, and 80 wolves. In 1988,
4.6 million birds, 9,000 beavers, 76,000 coyotes, 5,000
raccoons, 300 black bears, and 200 mountain lions, among
others, were killed. Some 400 pet dogs and 100 cats were
also inadvertently killed. Extermination methods used include
poisoning, shooting, gassing, and burning animals in their dens.'
http://www.ti.org/adcreport.html

'But, of all man's activities, grazing by livestock has been the most
widespread and prolonged use and has had the most profound effect
upon the Nation's ranges. --US Forest Service, "An Assessment of
the Forest and Range Land Situation in the United States" (USDA,
FS 1980)

The Forest Service defines range as "land that provides or is capable
of providing forage for grazing or browsing animals [read: 'livestock']."
By this definition more than 80% of the West qualifies as range,
including a complex array of more than 40 major ecosystem types,
all of which have been significantly degraded by ranching. ..
...
Numerous historical accounts do confirm drastic, detrimental changes
in plant and animal life, soil, water, and fire conditions throughout most
of the West. These reports progressively establish livestock grazing as
the biggest single perpetrator of these changes, particularly considering
that it was the only significant land use over most of the West.

One of the most useful and informative descriptions of the early West
was that of Meriweather Lewis and William Clark on their famous
expedition across the northern Midwest, Rockies, and Pacific
Northwest from 1804 to 1806 (Thwaites 1959). Their descriptions of
the unconquered West are of a world we can scarcely imagine:
landscapes filled with wildlife; great diversities of lush vegetation; highly
productive, free-flowing rivers, creeks, and springs; abundant, dark,
fertile soil; unaltered, unimpeded fire and other natural processes. Of
the Montana plains, one excerpt from Clark reads, "we observe in
every direction Buffalow, Elk Antelopes & Mule Deer inumerable and
so jintle that we could approach them near with great ease." Another
states, We saw a great number of buffaloe, Elk, common and Black
tailed deer, goats [pronghorn] beaver and wolves. ..

In the West today only ungrazed Yellowstone National Park supports
nearly this variety and density of large wild animals. ..

Lewis and Clark's and other historic journals attest that buffalo, elk,
deer, bighorns, pronghorn, mountain goats, moose, horses, grizzly
and black bears, wolves, foxes, cougars, bobcats, beaver, muskrats,
river otters, fish, porcupines, wild turkeys and other "game" birds,
waterfowl, snakes, prairie dogs and other rodents, most insects, and
the vast majority of wild animals were all many times more abundant
then than now. So too were native plants; the journals describe a
great abundance and diversity of grasses and herbaceous vegetation,
willows and deciduous trees, cattails, rushes, sedges, wild grapes,
chokecherries, currants, wild cherries and plums, gooseberries,
"red" and "yellow" berries, service berries, flax, dock, wild garlic and
onions, sunflowers, wild roses, tansy, honeysuckle, mints, and more,
a large number being edible. Most of these plants have been depleted
through the many effects of livestock grazing for 100 years and are
today comparatively scarce. ..'
http://www.apnm.org/waste_of_west/Chapter3.html

> Where there's death there is life, and the only way to eliminate death
> is to eliminate life. You want to eliminate domestic animals, which is no
> doubt many billions of lives. And the only way to eliminate death in crop
> fields is to eliminate life there too. So instead of grazing areas with
> livestock experiencing decent lives and wildlife thriving there with them,
> you "ARAs" would rather see no livestock and no wildlife thriving in the
> area so there would be no death. Is that to be admired? I would say no.
> Your way of thinking says that an empty parking lot is ethically superior
> to a healthy grazing area, simply because the livestock will be killed
> and eaten. But worse still imo is that you believe the killing which does
> go on in crop fields is ethically superior to healthy grazing areas, regardless
> of whether or not it involves more killing and more suffering.

If arable land (~10% of all land surface), currently used to grow human-edible
food and livestock feed (1/2), was used only to grow human-edible food, it
would meet the human population's requirements +, whilst at the same time
freeing-up for natural habitat the ~50% of all land surface currently grazed.

&

Livestock Suffer, Too
http://www.apnm.org/waste_of_west/Chapter5.html

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:32:16 GMT

pearl wrote:
<...>
> Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
> the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
> the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
> are not the high speed machines described in this article.
>
> At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we
> share our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins,
> we search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation centers
> (mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this). After hatching,
> the fledglings are raised and released back into the wild. Last year, we
> rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we flood our fields to
> provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
> rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring. There
> are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
> sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
> herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.

What about all the other non-bird species native to those fields?
*Nothing* about mice, rats, snakes, etc.

<...>

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:39:57 -0000

"usual suspect" wrote in message news:kTYBd.37182$wD4.21385@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> pearl wrote:
> <...>
> > Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
> > the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
> > the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
> > are not the high speed machines described in this article.
> >
> > At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we
> > share our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins,
> > we search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation centers
> > (mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this). After hatching,
> > the fledglings are raised and released back into the wild. Last year, we
> > rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we flood our fields to
> > provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
> > rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring. There
> > are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
> > sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
> > herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.
>
> What about all the other non-bird species native to those fields?
> *Nothing* about mice, rats, snakes, etc.

What about them? Are they nailed-down or something?

> <...>

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Tue, 04 Jan 2005 00:39:33 GMT

pearl wrote:
> "usual suspect" wrote in message news:kTYBd.37182$wD4.21385@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>
>>pearl wrote:
>><...>
>>
>>>Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
>>>the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
>>>the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
>>>are not the high speed machines described in this article.
>>>
>>>At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we
>>>share our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins,
>>>we search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation centers
>>>(mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this). After hatching,
>>>the fledglings are raised and released back into the wild. Last year, we
>>>rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we flood our fields to
>>>provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
>>>rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring. There
>>>are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
>>>sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
>>>herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.
>>
>>What about all the other non-bird species native to those fields?
>>*Nothing* about mice, rats, snakes, etc.
>
> What about them? Are they nailed-down or something?

That might make it easier to slice and dice them, but the combine does a
good enough job of that already. The wheels of the combine also smush
them into little pulps.

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Tue, 4 Jan 2005 13:51:10 -0000

"usual suspect" wrote in message news:9BlCd.39361$wD4.18016@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> pearl wrote:
> > "usual suspect" wrote in message news:kTYBd.37182$wD4.21385@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> >
> >>pearl wrote:
> >><...>
> >>
> >>>Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
> >>>the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
> >>>the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
> >>>are not the high speed machines described in this article.
> >>>
> >>>At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we
> >>>share our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins,
> >>>we search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation centers
> >>>(mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this). After hatching,
> >>>the fledglings are raised and released back into the wild. Last year, we
> >>>rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we flood our fields to
> >>>provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
> >>>rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring. There
> >>>are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
> >>>sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
> >>>herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.
> >>
> >>What about all the other non-bird species native to those fields?
> >>*Nothing* about mice, rats, snakes, etc.
> >
> > What about them? Are they nailed-down or something?
>
> That might make it easier to slice and dice them, but the combine does a
> good enough job of that already. The wheels of the combine also smush
> them into little pulps.

Ipse dixit, and you're a proven liar.

We require verifiable evidence, suspect.

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:24:23 GMT

pearl wrote:
>>>><...>
>>>>
>>>>>Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
>>>>>the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
>>>>>the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
>>>>>are not the high speed machines described in this article.
>>>>>
>>>>>At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we
>>>>>share our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins,
>>>>>we search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation centers
>>>>>(mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this). After hatching,
>>>>>the fledglings are raised and released back into the wild. Last year, we
>>>>>rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we flood our fields to
>>>>>provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
>>>>>rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring. There
>>>>>are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
>>>>>sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
>>>>>herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.
>>>>
>>>>What about all the other non-bird species native to those fields?
>>>>*Nothing* about mice, rats, snakes, etc.
>>>
>>>What about them? Are they nailed-down or something?
>>
>>That might make it easier to slice and dice them, but the combine does a
>>good enough job of that already. The wheels of the combine also smush
>>them into little pulps.
>
>
> Ipse dixit,

Not ipse dixit.

> and you're a proven liar.

Ipse dixit.

> We require verifiable evidence, suspect.

Does "we" include the inner earth beings you believe in thanks to
channelers like Aurelia Jones?

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Wed, 5 Jan 2005 15:34:05 -0000

"usual suspect" wrote in message news:rGxCd.55935$yv2.2742@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> pearl wrote:
> >>>><...>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
> >>>>>the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
> >>>>>the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
> >>>>>are not the high speed machines described in this article.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we
> >>>>>share our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins,
> >>>>>we search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation centers
> >>>>>(mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this). After hatching,
> >>>>>the fledglings are raised and released back into the wild. Last year, we
> >>>>>rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we flood our fields to
> >>>>>provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
> >>>>>rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring. There
> >>>>>are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
> >>>>>sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
> >>>>>herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.
> >>>>
> >>>>What about all the other non-bird species native to those fields?
> >>>>*Nothing* about mice, rats, snakes, etc.
> >>>
> >>>What about them? Are they nailed-down or something?
> >>
> >>That might make it easier to slice and dice them, but the combine does a
> >>good enough job of that already. The wheels of the combine also smush
> >>them into little pulps.
> >
> >
> > Ipse dixit,
>
> Not ipse dixit.

Absolutely ipse dixit, liar suspect.

> > and you're a proven liar.
>
> Ipse dixit.

*Proven*, liar suspect.

> > We require verifiable evidence, suspect.
>
> Does "we" include the inner earth beings you believe in thanks to
> channelers like Aurelia Jones?

Not unless they're reading this thread, liar suspect.

Well?

From:	SHIVER ME TIMBERS
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 21:25:27 GMT

> pearl wrote:

> After harvest, we flood our fields to
> provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
> rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring.
> There
> are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
> sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
> herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.

Good for you lady..... It must be quite the sight to have morning coffee
and watch the birds arrive by the thousands.

I've had the opportunity a few times in my life to watch large flocks
of Canada Geesies chowing down in large numbers in wetlands as they
prepare for the big flight South and there is no sight or sound like
it.

Friend took me flying once, over a lake just as thousands were coming
in for a landing..... Unbelievable sight.

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:49:06 GMT

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sat, 1 Jan 2005 23:08:53 -0000

"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message news:010120051424158087%shiver@me_timbers.com...
> > pearl wrote:
>
> > After harvest, we flood our fields to
> > provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
> > rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring.
> > There
> > are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
> > sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
> > herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.
>
> Good for you lady..... It must be quite the sight to have morning coffee
> and watch the birds arrive by the thousands.

Surely, but please note that the author of the above is Kent Lundburg
of "Lundberg Family Farms" < http://www.lundberg.com >, not I.

> I've had the opportunity a few times in my life to watch large flocks
> of Canada Geesies chowing down in large numbers in wetlands as they
> prepare for the big flight South and there is no sight or sound like
> it.
>
> Friend took me flying once, over a lake just as thousands were coming
> in for a landing..... Unbelievable sight.

I can't imagine.. I'm thinking of the few swans that sometimes fly over
my house (I'm in Ireland), times the flocks of thousands of smaller birds
which migrate over/through where I live. Must be really quite awesome.

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 22:49:02 GMT

"pearl" wrote in message
news:cr6vag$d1i$1@kermit.esat.net...

snipppage of typical spew Lys doesn't read for comprehension..

>
> We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
> see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
> continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
> suggests.
====================
Hey, pearl, you fool. Look at the picture. That is mechanical harvesting,
just like regular farming. Not cruelty-free, hypocrite.

http://www.lundberg.com/farming/farming_home.html

snip spew...

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sat, 1 Jan 2005 23:33:24 -0000

"rick etter" wrote in message news:yNFBd.14616$RH4.11252@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "pearl" wrote in message
> news:cr6vag$d1i$1@kermit.esat.net...
<..>
> > We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
> > see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
> > continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
> > suggests.
> ====================
> Hey, pearl, you fool. Look at the picture. That is mechanical harvesting,
> just like regular farming. Not cruelty-free, hypocrite.

'There is an "article" circulating on the Internet that describes how
thousands of frogs and other animals are killed in the mechanized
harvesting of grain crops. This "collateral animal deaths" story is an
elaborate hoax. The author, a "Texas organic rice farmer" is a gifted
writer, but he should use his talents elsewhere.

The author's numbers describe a plague of frogs of biblical
proportions. However, it is questionable if he has even been on a rice
farm. The major point that our author has missed is that rice fields
are harvested dry. The irrigation water is drained, and the ground is
left to dry before the harvesters go out in the field (otherwise, they'd
sink in the mud). There just aren't that many amphibians in the field.

Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
are not the high speed machines described in this article.

At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we
share our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins,
we search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation centers
(mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this). After hatching,
the fledglings are raised and released back into the wild. Last year, we
rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we flood our fields to
provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring. There
are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.

We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
suggests.

--> Kent Lundberg.

Kent Lundberg
Lundberg Family Farms
http://www.lundberg.com

(via email)

>
> http://www.lundberg.com/farming/farming_home.html

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:52:21 GMT

pearl wrote:
<...>
> Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths.

Some small animals die.

> However,
> the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
> the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
> are not the high speed machines described in this article.
>
> At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we
> share our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins,
> we search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation centers
> (mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this). After hatching,
> the fledglings are raised and released back into the wild. Last year, we
> rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we flood our fields to
> provide habitat for winter migratory birds and waterfowl. They eat the
> rice that is left in the fields and contribute fertilizer for next spring. There
> are autumn days when the sky is blackened by canadian geese (and the
> sound is beautiful)! We see ducks, geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets,
> herons, swans, and even bald eagles resting in our fields.

A lot about migratory birds. Nothing at all about rabbits, mice, rats,
snakes, etc.

<...>

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 02:14:47 GMT

"pearl" wrote in message
news:cr7cib$gvv$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "rick etter" wrote in message
> news:yNFBd.14616$RH4.11252@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "pearl" wrote in message
>> news:cr6vag$d1i$1@kermit.esat.net...
> <..>
>> > We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
>> > see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
>> > continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
>> > suggests.
>> ====================
>> Hey, pearl, you fool. Look at the picture. That is mechanical
>> harvesting,
>> just like regular farming. Not cruelty-free, hypocrite.

Dodge noted fool. I said nothing about Diderots article, now did I? I'm
talking about everyday mechanical farming techniques, just like the ones
pictured by Lundberg Farms.

http://www.lundberg.com/farming/farming_home.html

snippage...

>
> We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
> see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
> continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
> suggests.
==================
Again, the ly continues by you. No where does it say they kill no animals.

> (via email)
>
>>
>> http://www.lundberg.com/farming/farming_home.html
>
>
>

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 2 Jan 2005 02:33:53 -0000

"rick etter" wrote in message news:rOIBd.4416$Cc.2614@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "pearl" wrote in message
> news:cr7cib$gvv$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > "rick etter" wrote in message
> > news:yNFBd.14616$RH4.11252@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >> "pearl" wrote in message
> >> news:cr6vag$d1i$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > <..>
> >> > We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
> >> > see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
> >> > continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
> >> > suggests.
> >> ====================
> >> Hey, pearl, you fool. Look at the picture. That is mechanical
> >> harvesting,
> >> just like regular farming. Not cruelty-free, hypocrite.
>
> Dodge noted fool.

Not me.

> I said nothing about Diderots article, now did I? I'm
> talking about everyday mechanical farming techniques, just like the ones
> pictured by Lundberg Farms.
>
> http://www.lundberg.com/farming/farming_home.html

'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
are not the high speed machines described in this article.'

> > We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
> > see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
> > continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
> > suggests.
> ==================
> Again, the ly continues by you.

Not me.

> No where does it say they kill no animals.

'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
are not the high speed machines described in this article.'

On the other hand, wildlife benefits;

'After harvest, we flood our fields to provide habitat for winter migratory
birds and waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the fields and
contribute fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days when the sky
is blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We see ducks,
geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even bald eagles
resting in our fields.'

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 02:41:43 GMT

"pearl" wrote in message
news:cr7n4n$jv8$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "rick etter" wrote in message
> news:rOIBd.4416$Cc.2614@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "pearl" wrote in message
>> news:cr7cib$gvv$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> > "rick etter" wrote in message
>> > news:yNFBd.14616$RH4.11252@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> >>
>> >> "pearl" wrote in message
>> >> news:cr6vag$d1i$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> > <..>
>> >> > We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
>> >> > see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would
>> >> > not
>> >> > continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this
>> >> > hoax
>> >> > suggests.
>> >> ====================
>> >> Hey, pearl, you fool. Look at the picture. That is mechanical
>> >> harvesting,
>> >> just like regular farming. Not cruelty-free, hypocrite.
>>
>> Dodge noted fool.
>
> Not me.
================
Yep, you, as usual, killer...

>
>> I said nothing about Diderots article, now did I? I'm
>> talking about everyday mechanical farming techniques, just like the ones
>> pictured by Lundberg Farms.
>>
>> http://www.lundberg.com/farming/farming_home.html
>
> 'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
> the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
> the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
> are not the high speed machines described in this article.'
>
>> > We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We
>> > see our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
>> > continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
>> > suggests.
>> ==================
>> Again, the ly continues by you.
>
> Not me.
================
Yep, you, as usual, killer...

>
>> No where does it say they kill no animals.
>
> 'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
> the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
> the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
> are not the high speed machines described in this article.'
>
> On the other hand, wildlife benefits;
>
> 'After harvest, we flood our fields to provide habitat for winter
> migratory
> birds and waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the fields and
> contribute fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days when the sky
> is blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We see
> ducks,
> geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even bald
> eagles
> resting in our fields.'
======================
Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals, reptiles,
fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...

Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2000/Jan00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/Profiles/carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/prip/factsheets/PRIP_WildlifeFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_WildlifeSpeciesCon/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/animalrights/leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources/documents/conventionalCotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/html/news/archives/ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topics/Pests/Vertebrate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2000/Jan00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/notebook/agriculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/default.cfm?exec=Page.View&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/Licensed2Killexecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_map/articles/article_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy/project_fact_sheets/500-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articles/envImp/04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public_Affairs/Policy_Statements/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_detail.cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/articles/2004/cleanup012012004.html

Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources/documents/conventionalCotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:kmPMnV7pZC4C:www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topics/Pests/Vertebrate/Mice.html

To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html

>
>
>
>
>

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 2 Jan 2005 02:59:06 -0000

"rick etter" wrote in message news:HbJBd.4447$Cc.4389@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "pearl" wrote in message
> news:cr7n4n$jv8$1@kermit.esat.net...
<..>
> >> No where does it say they kill no animals.
> >
> > 'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
> > the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to
> > the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
> > are not the high speed machines described in this article.'
> >
> > On the other hand, wildlife benefits;
> >
> > 'After harvest, we flood our fields to provide habitat for winter migratory
> > birds and waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the fields and
> > contribute fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days when the sky
> > is blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We see ducks,
> > geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even bald eagles
> > resting in our fields.'
> ======================
> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals, reptiles,
> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...

By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support your claim.

<..still nothing about CDs in organic farming..>

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 03:17:44 GMT

"pearl" wrote in message
news:cr7ok1$l23$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "rick etter" wrote in message
> news:HbJBd.4447$Cc.4389@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "pearl" wrote in message
>> news:cr7n4n$jv8$1@kermit.esat.net...
> <..>
>> >> No where does it say they kill no animals.
>> >
>> > 'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
>> > the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison
>> > to
>> > the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
>> > are not the high speed machines described in this article.'
>> >
>> > On the other hand, wildlife benefits;
>> >
>> > 'After harvest, we flood our fields to provide habitat for winter
>> > migratory
>> > birds and waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the fields and
>> > contribute fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days when the
>> > sky
>> > is blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We see
>> > ducks,
>> > geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even bald
>> > eagles
>> > resting in our fields.'
>> ======================
>> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals, reptiles,
>> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
>
> By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support your claim.
==================
Already done. They farm just like everybody else, killer.

>
> <..still nothing about CDs in organic farming..>
====================
Yep, already done, hypocrite. You lack of support for your ignorant claims
noted, again...
>
>

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 2 Jan 2005 03:35:35 -0000

"rick etter" wrote in message news:sJJBd.4497$Cc.3887@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "pearl" wrote in message
> news:cr7ok1$l23$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > "rick etter" wrote in message
> > news:HbJBd.4447$Cc.4389@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >> "pearl" wrote in message
> >> news:cr7n4n$jv8$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > <..>
> >> >> No where does it say they kill no animals.
> >> >
> >> > 'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
> >> > the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison
> >> > to
> >> > the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they
> >> > are not the high speed machines described in this article.'
> >> >
> >> > On the other hand, wildlife benefits;
> >> >
> >> > 'After harvest, we flood our fields to provide habitat for winter
> >> > migratory
> >> > birds and waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the fields and
> >> > contribute fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days when the
> >> > sky
> >> > is blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We see
> >> > ducks,
> >> > geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even bald
> >> > eagles
> >> > resting in our fields.'
> >> ======================
> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals, reptiles,
> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
> >
> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support your claim.
> ==================
> Already done.

Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.

> They farm just like everybody else, killer.

Apparently not.

> > <..still nothing about CDs in organic farming..>
> ====================
> Yep, already done, hypocrite. You lack of support for your ignorant claims
> noted, again...

Not done. Your lack of support for your ignorant claims noted, again...

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 03:39:00 GMT

"pearl" wrote in message
news:cr7qod$l4s$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "rick etter" wrote in message
> news:sJJBd.4497$Cc.3887@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "pearl" wrote in message
>> news:cr7ok1$l23$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> > "rick etter" wrote in message
>> > news:HbJBd.4447$Cc.4389@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> >>
>> >> "pearl" wrote in message
>> >> news:cr7n4n$jv8$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> > <..>
>> >> >> No where does it say they kill no animals.
>> >> >
>> >> > 'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
>> >> > the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in
>> >> > comparison
>> >> > to
>> >> > the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and
>> >> > they
>> >> > are not the high speed machines described in this article.'
>> >> >
>> >> > On the other hand, wildlife benefits;
>> >> >
>> >> > 'After harvest, we flood our fields to provide habitat for winter
>> >> > migratory
>> >> > birds and waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the fields
>> >> > and
>> >> > contribute fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days when
>> >> > the
>> >> > sky
>> >> > is blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We see
>> >> > ducks,
>> >> > geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even
>> >> > bald
>> >> > eagles
>> >> > resting in our fields.'
>> >> ======================
>> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals,
>> >> reptiles,
>> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
>> >
>> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support your claim.
>> ==================
>> Already done.
>
> Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
=====================
Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did you?

>
>> They farm just like everybody else, killer.
>
> Apparently not.
================
Yep. See the picture, fool...

>
>> > <..still nothing about CDs in organic farming..>
>> ====================
>> Yep, already done, hypocrite. You lack of support for your ignorant
>> claims
>> noted, again...
>
> Not done. Your lack of support for your ignorant claims noted, again...
> =================
You're continued dodge noted. Where;s your proof, killer?

Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2000/Jan00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/Profiles/carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/prip/factsheets/PRIP_WildlifeFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_WildlifeSpeciesCon/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/animalrights/leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources/documents/conventionalCotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/html/news/archives/ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topics/Pests/Vertebrate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2000/Jan00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/notebook/agriculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/default.cfm?exec=Page.View&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/Licensed2Killexecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_map/articles/article_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy/project_fact_sheets/500-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articles/envImp/04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public_Affairs/Policy_Statements/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_detail.cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/articles/2004/cleanup012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pubs/Natures_Toxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environment/ppps/pdf/ma_reding_annex1.pdf

Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources/documents/conventionalCotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:kmPMnV7pZC4C:www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topics/Pests/Vertebrate/Mice.html

To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html

>

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 2 Jan 2005 03:46:52 -0000

"rick etter" wrote in message news:o1KBd.4515$Cc.338@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "pearl" wrote in message
> news:cr7qod$l4s$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > "rick etter" wrote in message
> > news:sJJBd.4497$Cc.3887@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >> "pearl" wrote in message
> >> news:cr7ok1$l23$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >> > "rick etter" wrote in message
> >> > news:HbJBd.4447$Cc.4389@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >> >>
> >> >> "pearl" wrote in message
> >> >> news:cr7n4n$jv8$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >> > <..>
> >> >> >> No where does it say they kill no animals.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However,
> >> >> > the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in
> >> >> > comparison
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and
> >> >> > they
> >> >> > are not the high speed machines described in this article.'
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On the other hand, wildlife benefits;
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 'After harvest, we flood our fields to provide habitat for winter
> >> >> > migratory
> >> >> > birds and waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the fields
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > contribute fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days when
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > sky
> >> >> > is blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We see
> >> >> > ducks,
> >> >> > geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even
> >> >> > bald
> >> >> > eagles
> >> >> > resting in our fields.'
> >> >> ======================
> >> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals,
> >> >> reptiles,
> >> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
> >> >
> >> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support your claim.
> >> ==================
> >> Already done.
> >
> > Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
> =====================
> Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did you?

Where? My what? It's obvious to all by now that you have nothing, etter.

> >> They farm just like everybody else, killer.
> >
> > Apparently not.
> ================
> Yep. See the picture, fool...

And?

> >> > <..still nothing about CDs in organic farming..>
> >> ====================
> >> Yep, already done, hypocrite. You lack of support for your ignorant
> >> claims
> >> noted, again...
> >
> > Not done. Your lack of support for your ignorant claims noted, again...
> > =================
> You're continued dodge noted. Where;s your proof, killer?

Your continued dodge is noted.

<..still nothing about CDs in organic farming..>

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 03:58:17 GMT

"pearl" wrote in message
news:cr7rdi$l5l$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "rick etter" wrote in message
> news:o1KBd.4515$Cc.338@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "pearl" wrote in message
>> news:cr7qod$l4s$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> > "rick etter" wrote in message
>> > news:sJJBd.4497$Cc.3887@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> >>
>> >> "pearl" wrote in message
>> >> news:cr7ok1$l23$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> >> > "rick etter" wrote in message
>> >> > news:HbJBd.4447$Cc.4389@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "pearl" wrote in message
>> >> >> news:cr7n4n$jv8$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> >> > <..>
>> >> >> >> No where does it say they kill no animals.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 'Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths.
>> >> >> > However,
>> >> >> > the number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in
>> >> >> > comparison
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > the road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and
>> >> >> > they
>> >> >> > are not the high speed machines described in this article.'
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On the other hand, wildlife benefits;
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 'After harvest, we flood our fields to provide habitat for winter
>> >> >> > migratory
>> >> >> > birds and waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the
>> >> >> > fields
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > contribute fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days
>> >> >> > when
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > sky
>> >> >> > is blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We
>> >> >> > see
>> >> >> > ducks,
>> >> >> > geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even
>> >> >> > bald
>> >> >> > eagles
>> >> >> > resting in our fields.'
>> >> >> ======================
>> >> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals,
>> >> >> reptiles,
>> >> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
>> >> >
>> >> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support your
>> >> > claim.
>> >> ==================
>> >> Already done.
>> >
>> > Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
>> =====================
>> Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did you?
>
> Where? My what? It's obvious to all by now that you have nothing, etter.
======================
Yes, I do, and you even proved it, thanks....

Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?

>
>> >> They farm just like everybody else, killer.
>> >
>> > Apparently not.
>> ================
>> Yep. See the picture, fool...
>
> And?
>
>> >> > <..still nothing about CDs in organic farming..>
>> >> ====================
>> >> Yep, already done, hypocrite. You lack of support for your ignorant
>> >> claims
>> >> noted, again...
>> >
>> > Not done. Your lack of support for your ignorant claims noted,
>> > again...
>> > =================
>> You're continued dodge noted. Where;s your proof, killer?
>
> Your continued dodge is noted.
=====================
LOL I'm not the one refusing to post my data. You haven't been able to
back up your claim, hypocrite. Mine are well founded, and proven...\

>
> <..still nothing about CDs in organic farming..>
>
>

Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2000/Jan00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/Profiles/carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/prip/factsheets/PRIP_WildlifeFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_WildlifeSpeciesCon/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/animalrights/leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources/documents/conventionalCotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/html/news/archives/ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topics/Pests/Vertebrate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2000/Jan00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/notebook/agriculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/default.cfm?exec=Page.View&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/Licensed2Killexecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_map/articles/article_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy/project_fact_sheets/500-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articles/envImp/04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public_Affairs/Policy_Statements/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_detail.cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/articles/2004/cleanup012012004.html

http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pubs/Natures_Toxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environment/ppps/pdf/ma_reding_annex1.pdf

Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources/documents/conventionalCotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:kmPMnV7pZC4C:www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topics/Pests/Vertebrate/Mice.html

To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 2 Jan 2005 04:16:22 -0000

"rick etter" wrote in message news:tjKBd.4528$Cc.3946@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "pearl" wrote in message
> news:cr7rdi$l5l$1@kermit.esat.net...
<..>
> >> >> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals,
> >> >> >> reptiles,
> >> >> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support your
> >> >> > claim.
> >> >> ==================
> >> >> Already done.
> >> >
> >> > Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
> >> =====================
> >> Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did you?
> >
> > Where? My what? It's obvious to all by now that you have nothing, etter.
> ======================
> Yes, I do, and you even proved it, thanks....

Proved what?

> Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?

You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 23:38:01 GMT

"pearl" wrote in message
news:cr7t4s$ps4$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "rick etter" wrote in message
> news:tjKBd.4528$Cc.3946@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "pearl" wrote in message
>> news:cr7rdi$l5l$1@kermit.esat.net...
> <..>
>> >> >> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals,
>> >> >> >> reptiles,
>> >> >> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support your
>> >> >> > claim.
>> >> >> ==================
>> >> >> Already done.
>> >> >
>> >> > Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
>> >> =====================
>> >> Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did you?
>> >
>> > Where? My what? It's obvious to all by now that you have nothing,
>> > etter.
>> ======================
>> Yes, I do, and you even proved it, thanks....
>
> Proved what?
=================
That organic farming is dangerous to animals and kills them. Thanks again,
hypocrite.

>
>> Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?
>
> You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.
======================
I have, many times, killer. Where's your proof that organic farming never
kills animals?

>
>
>

From:	Ron
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:43:21 -0500

In article ,
"rick etter" wrote:

> "pearl" wrote in message
> news:cr7t4s$ps4$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > "rick etter" wrote in message
> > news:tjKBd.4528$Cc.3946@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >> "pearl" wrote in message
> >> news:cr7rdi$l5l$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > <..>
> >> >> >> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other mammals,
> >> >> >> >> reptiles,
> >> >> >> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support your
> >> >> >> > claim.
> >> >> >> ==================
> >> >> >> Already done.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
> >> >> =====================
> >> >> Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did you?
> >> >
> >> > Where? My what? It's obvious to all by now that you have nothing,
> >> > etter.
> >> ======================
> >> Yes, I do, and you even proved it, thanks....
> >
> > Proved what?
> =================
> That organic farming is dangerous to animals and kills them. Thanks again,
> hypocrite.
>
>
> >
> >> Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?
> >
> > You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.
> ======================
> I have, many times, killer. Where's your proof that organic farming never
> kills animals?

I could grow hydroponic tomatoes and lettuce in my home. Nothing dies.
That you have confused mass produced foods and industries with what is
possible and does take place is another story.

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 01:50:15 GMT

"Ron" wrote in message
news:ronis-4BBDE3.20432102012005@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article ,
> "rick etter" wrote:
>
>> "pearl" wrote in message
>> news:cr7t4s$ps4$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> > "rick etter" wrote in message
>> > news:tjKBd.4528$Cc.3946@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> >>
>> >> "pearl" wrote in message
>> >> news:cr7rdi$l5l$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> > <..>
>> >> >> >> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other
>> >> >> >> >> mammals,
>> >> >> >> >> reptiles,
>> >> >> >> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support
>> >> >> >> > your
>> >> >> >> > claim.
>> >> >> >> ==================
>> >> >> >> Already done.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
>> >> >> =====================
>> >> >> Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did you?
>> >> >
>> >> > Where? My what? It's obvious to all by now that you have nothing,
>> >> > etter.
>> >> ======================
>> >> Yes, I do, and you even proved it, thanks....
>> >
>> > Proved what?
>> =================
>> That organic farming is dangerous to animals and kills them. Thanks
>> again,
>> hypocrite.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?
>> >
>> > You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.
>> ======================
>> I have, many times, killer. Where's your proof that organic farming
>> never
>> kills animals?
>
> I could grow hydroponic tomatoes and lettuce in my home. Nothing dies.
> That you have confused mass produced foods and industries with what is
> possible and does take place is another story.
========================
LOL And not survive on it. Besides, ask about what is used for inputs to
hydroponics tanks, fool. You lost, again. Next!

From:	Ron
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 01:36:19 -0500

In article ,
"rick etter" wrote:

> "Ron" wrote in message
> news:ronis-4BBDE3.20432102012005@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > In article ,
> > "rick etter" wrote:
> >
> >> "pearl" wrote in message
> >> news:cr7t4s$ps4$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >> > "rick etter" wrote in message
> >> > news:tjKBd.4528$Cc.3946@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >> >>
> >> >> "pearl" wrote in message
> >> >> news:cr7rdi$l5l$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >> > <..>
> >> >> >> >> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other
> >> >> >> >> >> mammals,
> >> >> >> >> >> reptiles,
> >> >> >> >> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support
> >> >> >> >> > your
> >> >> >> >> > claim.
> >> >> >> >> ==================
> >> >> >> >> Already done.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
> >> >> >> =====================
> >> >> >> Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did you?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Where? My what? It's obvious to all by now that you have nothing,
> >> >> > etter.
> >> >> ======================
> >> >> Yes, I do, and you even proved it, thanks....
> >> >
> >> > Proved what?
> >> =================
> >> That organic farming is dangerous to animals and kills them. Thanks
> >> again,
> >> hypocrite.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?
> >> >
> >> > You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.
> >> ======================
> >> I have, many times, killer. Where's your proof that organic farming
> >> never
> >> kills animals?
> >
> > I could grow hydroponic tomatoes and lettuce in my home. Nothing dies.
> > That you have confused mass produced foods and industries with what is
> > possible and does take place is another story.
> ========================
> LOL And not survive on it. Besides, ask about what is used for inputs to
> hydroponics tanks, fool. You lost, again. Next!

Your fascination and reliance with industry and technology is amazing.
Anything to make the little mind feel better, I s'pose.

Now get on your knees.

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 20:21:26 GMT

"Ron" wrote in message
news:ronis-EB21DA.01361903012005@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article ,
> "rick etter" wrote:
>
>> "Ron" wrote in message
>> news:ronis-4BBDE3.20432102012005@news.isp.giganews.com...
>> > In article ,
>> > "rick etter" wrote:
>> >
>> >> "pearl" wrote in message
>> >> news:cr7t4s$ps4$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> >> > "rick etter" wrote in message
>> >> > news:tjKBd.4528$Cc.3946@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "pearl" wrote in message
>> >> >> news:cr7rdi$l5l$1@kermit.esat.net...
>> >> > <..>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other
>> >> >> >> >> >> mammals,
>> >> >> >> >> >> reptiles,
>> >> >> >> >> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support
>> >> >> >> >> > your
>> >> >> >> >> > claim.
>> >> >> >> >> ==================
>> >> >> >> >> Already done.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
>> >> >> >> =====================
>> >> >> >> Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did
>> >> >> >> you?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Where? My what? It's obvious to all by now that you have
>> >> >> > nothing,
>> >> >> > etter.
>> >> >> ======================
>> >> >> Yes, I do, and you even proved it, thanks....
>> >> >
>> >> > Proved what?
>> >> =================
>> >> That organic farming is dangerous to animals and kills them. Thanks
>> >> again,
>> >> hypocrite.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?
>> >> >
>> >> > You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.
>> >> ======================
>> >> I have, many times, killer. Where's your proof that organic farming
>> >> never
>> >> kills animals?
>> >
>> > I could grow hydroponic tomatoes and lettuce in my home. Nothing dies.
>> > That you have confused mass produced foods and industries with what is
>> > possible and does take place is another story.
>> ========================
>> LOL And not survive on it. Besides, ask about what is used for inputs
>> to
>> hydroponics tanks, fool. You lost, again. Next!
>
> Your fascination and reliance with industry and technology is amazing.
> Anything to make the little mind feel better, I s'pose.
======================
Really? I guess you ignorance really makes you feel great then, huh
pansy-boy? You can't even keep up, it's you that was reallying on
technology there boy, not me.

>
> Now get on your knees.

From:	Ron
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:20:13 -0500

In article ,
"rick etter" wrote:

> "Ron" wrote in message
> news:ronis-EB21DA.01361903012005@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > In article ,
> > "rick etter" wrote:
> >
> >> "Ron" wrote in message
> >> news:ronis-4BBDE3.20432102012005@news.isp.giganews.com...
> >> > In article ,
> >> > "rick etter" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "pearl" wrote in message
> >> >> news:cr7t4s$ps4$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >> >> > "rick etter" wrote in message
> >> >> > news:tjKBd.4528$Cc.3946@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "pearl" wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:cr7rdi$l5l$1@kermit.esat.net...
> >> >> > <..>
> >> >> >> >> >> >> Those are all birds, fool. What happened to the other
> >> >> >> >> >> >> mammals,
> >> >> >> >> >> >> reptiles,
> >> >> >> >> >> >> fish and amphibians? Oh, yeah, they got whacked...
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > By what? Be sure to provide verifiable evidence to support
> >> >> >> >> >> > your
> >> >> >> >> >> > claim.
> >> >> >> >> >> ==================
> >> >> >> >> >> Already done.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Where? Provide evidence that supports your claims.
> >> >> >> >> =====================
> >> >> >> >> Already have, fool. Now, where's yours? Never had any, did
> >> >> >> >> you?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Where? My what? It's obvious to all by now that you have
> >> >> >> > nothing,
> >> >> >> > etter.
> >> >> >> ======================
> >> >> >> Yes, I do, and you even proved it, thanks....
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Proved what?
> >> >> =================
> >> >> That organic farming is dangerous to animals and kills them. Thanks
> >> >> again,
> >> >> hypocrite.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.
> >> >> ======================
> >> >> I have, many times, killer. Where's your proof that organic farming
> >> >> never
> >> >> kills animals?
> >> >
> >> > I could grow hydroponic tomatoes and lettuce in my home. Nothing dies.
> >> > That you have confused mass produced foods and industries with what is
> >> > possible and does take place is another story.
> >> ========================
> >> LOL And not survive on it. Besides, ask about what is used for inputs
> >> to
> >> hydroponics tanks, fool. You lost, again. Next!
> >
> > Your fascination and reliance with industry and technology is amazing.
> > Anything to make the little mind feel better, I s'pose.
> ======================
> Really? I guess you ignorance really makes you feel great then, huh
> pansy-boy? You can't even keep up, it's you that was reallying on
> technology there boy, not me.

I do find it interesting how you are defining ignorance. The
unwillingness to accept spoonfed opinions from others is not
intelligence but a conditioned ability to regurgitate acquired
information. You rock!

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 01:52:23 GMT

Fudge-packer Ron wrote:
<...>
>>=================
>>That organic farming is dangerous to animals and kills them. Thanks again,
>>hypocrite.
>>
>>>>Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?
>>>
>>>You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.
>>
>>======================
>>I have, many times, killer. Where's your proof that organic farming never
>>kills animals?
>
> I could grow hydroponic tomatoes and lettuce in my home. Nothing dies.

What will you use for fertilizer? Fish emulsion? That's one of the most
popular fertilizer used in hydroponic and organic farming. The others --
blood meal, bone meal, fish meal -- are also of animal origin, you
effeminate dummy.

http://tinyurl.com/6a5ws
http://www.growingedge.com/community/archive/read.php3?c=OH&q=434
http://www.organicdownunder.com/hydroponics.htm
http://www.diynet.com/diy/fv_organic/article/0,2029,DIY_13826_2269860,00.html
Etc.

> That you have confused mass produced foods and industries with what is
> possible and does take place is another story.

You've no clue about what is or isn't possible, poof.

From:	Ron
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 22:48:02 -0500

In article ,
usual suspect wrote:

> Fudge-packer Ron wrote:
> <...>
> >>=================
> >>That organic farming is dangerous to animals and kills them. Thanks again,
> >>hypocrite.
> >>
> >>>>Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?
> >>>
> >>>You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.
> >>
> >>======================
> >>I have, many times, killer. Where's your proof that organic farming never
> >>kills animals?
> >
> > I could grow hydroponic tomatoes and lettuce in my home. Nothing dies.
>
> What will you use for fertilizer? Fish emulsion? That's one of the most
> popular fertilizer used in hydroponic and organic farming. The others --
> blood meal, bone meal, fish meal -- are also of animal origin, you
> effeminate dummy.

Effeminante? Mirror, mirror.

Once again, you suffer from a chronic case of confirmation bias.
Clearly, one could be reliant on industry and "common" means to be a
vegan, but there are choices. There are alternatives.

However, you suffer further in that the expectation that vegan must live
up to your standards.

> http://tinyurl.com/6a5ws
> http://www.growingedge.com/community/archive/read.php3?c=OH&q=434
> http://www.organicdownunder.com/hydroponics.htm
> http://www.diynet.com/diy/fv_organic/article/0,2029,DIY_13826_2269860,00.html
> Etc.
>
> > That you have confused mass produced foods and industries with what is
> > possible and does take place is another story.
>
> You've no clue about what is or isn't possible, poof.

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 04:55:34 GMT

"Ron" wrote in message
news:ronis-2748D0.22480102012005@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article ,
> usual suspect wrote:
>
>> Fudge-packer Ron wrote:
>> <...>
>> >>=================
>> >>That organic farming is dangerous to animals and kills them. Thanks
>> >>again,
>> >>hypocrite.
>> >>
>> >>>>Now, about you claims and your cites. Where are they, killer?
>> >>>
>> >>>You're confused. It's you that needs to support claims.
>> >>
>> >>======================
>> >>I have, many times, killer. Where's your proof that organic farming
>> >>never
>> >>kills animals?
>> >
>> > I could grow hydroponic tomatoes and lettuce in my home. Nothing dies.
>>
>> What will you use for fertilizer? Fish emulsion? That's one of the most
>> popular fertilizer used in hydroponic and organic farming. The others --
>> blood meal, bone meal, fish meal -- are also of animal origin, you
>> effeminate dummy.
>
> Effeminante? Mirror, mirror.
>
> Once again, you suffer from a chronic case of confirmation bias.
> Clearly, one could be reliant on industry and "common" means to be a
> vegan, but there are choices. There are alternatives.
=================
Nice dodge, fool. The problem is that the vegans here do not try any of
those alternatives. Like you, they are totally ignorant of any alternatives
because their religion has told them that their simple rule for their simple
minds is sufficient.

>
> However, you suffer further in that the expectation that vegan must live
> up to your standards.
>
>
>> http://tinyurl.com/6a5ws
>> http://www.growingedge.com/community/archive/read.php3?c=OH&q=434
>> http://www.organicdownunder.com/hydroponics.htm
>> http://www.diynet.com/diy/fv_organic/article/0,2029,DIY_13826_2269860,00.html
>> Etc.
>>
>> > That you have confused mass produced foods and industries with what is
>> > possible and does take place is another story.
>>
>> You've no clue about what is or isn't possible, poof.

From:	Ron
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 01:28:42 -0500

In article ,
"rick etter" wrote:

> Nice dodge, fool. The problem is that the vegans here do not try any of
> those alternatives. Like you, they are totally ignorant of any alternatives
> because their religion has told them that their simple rule for their simple
> minds is sufficient.

I missed the lecture that requires humans to function as theoretical or
logical arguments. Please enlighten us.

Fool, indeed. Open wide, I have something for you.

From:	rick etter
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 19:37:42 GMT

"Ron" wrote in message
news:ronis-A76C1E.01284203012005@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article ,
> "rick etter" wrote:
>
>> Nice dodge, fool. The problem is that the vegans here do not try any of
>> those alternatives. Like you, they are totally ignorant of any
>> alternatives
>> because their religion has told them that their simple rule for their
>> simple
>> minds is sufficient.
>
> I missed the lecture that requires humans to function as theoretical or
> logical arguments. Please enlighten us.
====================
Nice dodge, again, pansy.

>
> Fool, indeed. Open wide, I have something for you.
=====================
LOL You're queer because women won't have anything to do with you, right
pansy?

From:	Ron
Subject:	Re: dh's feelings
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 15:20:39 -0500

In article ,
"rick etter" wrote:

> "Ron" wrote in message
> news:ronis-A76C1E.01284203012005@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > In article