 | | From: | Keith | | Subject: | Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:03:43 -0500 |
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 | What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The walls are
insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of the
low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge vent
so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products stored in
the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop heated up
in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night and does
get below freezing from time to time.
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| | From: | Keith | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:18:47 -0500 |
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| Many thanks for the suggestions and concerns about freezing. Guess I need to
remove those items to the house or rig up a small box the heat.
I'll watch for rust also on some of my new toys(Delta Table saw).
Keith wrote:
>What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
>My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The walls are
>insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of the
>low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge vent
>so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products stored in
>the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop heated up
>in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night and does
>get below freezing from time to time.
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| | From: | Silvan | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:51:46 -0500 |
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| Keith wrote:
> Many thanks for the suggestions and concerns about freezing. Guess I need
> to remove those items to the house or rig up a small box the heat.
> I'll watch for rust also on some of my new toys(Delta Table saw).
I wouldn't watch for it, I'd try to prevent it proactively. I have an
unheated shop too, and when the conditions are right for rust, rust happens
fast. Overnight things go from clear and shiny to absolutely covered in
rust. Literally overnight. Go out the next morning and "What the hell
happened to my tools?!"
There have been thousands of posts about how to deal with rust on this
newgroup. A brief summary of what works for me is: Johson's paste wax on
all iron/steel surfaces, applied and maintained diligently; and a cheap box
fan keeping the air circulating around. Faster moving air has some effect
on the dingleflootchie manuver or something and somehow magically keeps the
condensation from settling down. Not my idea, and I obviously don't quite
remember how it's supposed to work, but work it does. I don't quite
remember when the conditions are supposed to be ripe for this to happen
either, so I just leave the thing going 24/7. Cheap insurance. I would
probably cry if I woke up one morning to a rusty saw top.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
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| | From: | BAF | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:26:51 -0500 |
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| This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C50136.0E2402F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Keith,
As a rule, any products that are water-base, such as glue, stains, =
paint, etc. are usually destroyed once they freeze. The thawing process =
prevents them from recombining back to their original state. Plus, I'm =
sure heating up and cooling down any wood you have in your shop is =
reeking havoc with the moisture content of it.
Ed
Boston Accent Furniture
Tired of working for the man?
Turn your woodworking into a full-time income and fire your boss!
Find out how right here:
http://bostonaccentfurniture.com/apprentice
"Keith" wrote in message =
news:1106492054.9a423b701a92b4c1ccbc86a3037f3e46@1usenet...
> What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
> My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The =
walls are
> insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because =
of the
> low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a =
ridge vent
> so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products =
stored in
> the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop =
heated up
> in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night =
and does
> get below freezing from time to time.
>
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C50136.0E2402F0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
Hey Keith,
As a rule, any products that are water-base, such as =
glue,=20
stains, paint, etc. are usually destroyed once they freeze. The thawing =
process=20
prevents them from recombining back to their original state. Plus, I'm =
sure=20
heating up and cooling down any wood you have in your shop is reeking =
havoc with=20
the moisture content of it.
Ed Boston Accent Furniture Tired of working for the man? Turn your woodworking into a full-time income and =
fire your=20
boss! Find out how right here: V> > What is the harm if my wood =
shop=20
freezes from time to time?
> My wood shop is a 20x20 separate =
building=20
with a concrete floor. The walls are
> insulated and covered. The =
roof is=20
9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of the
> low snow fall in the =
area.=20
The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge vent
> so it will =
hold it=20
somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products stored =
in
> the=20
shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop heated=20
up
> in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 =
last night=20
and does
> get below freezing from time to=20
time.
>------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C50136.0E2402F0-- |
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| | From: | George | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:49:03 -0500 |
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"BAF" wrote in message
news:3LudnU5cN4OhX27cRVn-qg@comcast.com...
Hey Keith,
As a rule, any products that are water-base, such as glue, stains, paint,
etc. are usually destroyed once they freeze. The thawing process prevents
them from recombining back to their original state. Plus, I'm sure heating
up and cooling down any wood you have in your shop is reeking havoc with the
moisture content of it.
Won't hurt the wood. Transition times between extremes are short, and wood
can't catch up. Frozen wood won't dry, though.
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| | From: | Derek Hartzell | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:37:57 -0800 |
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| Sheetrock can loosen and cracks form in the mud with temperature extremes.
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| | From: | Tim | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:30:49 -0500 |
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"Keith" wrote in message
news:1106492054.9a423b701a92b4c1ccbc86a3037f3e46@1usenet...
> What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
> My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The walls
> are
> insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of
> the
> low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge
> vent
> so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products
> stored in
> the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop
> heated up
> in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night and
> does
> get below freezing from time to time.
>
Don't forget about battery operated tools. Freezing temps aren't great for
batteries.
From the Dewalt Battery FAQ (NiCad):
Does the outside temperature affect batteries? How?
Yes. If the batteries are too hot (1050F or higher) or too cold (below
400F), the batteries will not take a full charge. Attempting to charge
batteries outside the 400F-1050F range can result in a permanent loss of
runtime. When batteries are being charged and discharged a chemical reaction
is taking place, and if it is too hot or cold the chemical reaction is
disturbed causing a loss of runtime.
Tim
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| | From: | Duane Bozarth | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:35:31 -0600 |
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| Tim wrote:
....
> From the Dewalt Battery FAQ (NiCad):
> ...batteries are too hot (1050F or higher) or too cold (below
> 400F), the batteries will not take a full charge. Attempting to charge
> batteries outside the 400F-1050F range ...
Damn!! That's my problem...I keep trying to use the darn things at room
temps! :)
(I'm presuming a decimal got dropped in the translation although that
would seem more precise than necessary???)
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| | From: | Tim | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:14:16 -0500 |
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"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
news:41F40A93.E37423C3@swko.dot.net...
> Tim wrote:
> ...
>> From the Dewalt Battery FAQ (NiCad):
>> ...batteries are too hot (1050F or higher) or too cold (below
>> 400F), the batteries will not take a full charge. Attempting to charge
>> batteries outside the 400F-1050F range ...
>
> Damn!! That's my problem...I keep trying to use the darn things at room
> temps! :)
>
> (I'm presuming a decimal got dropped in the translation although that
> would seem more precise than necessary???)
Yep, the translation to plain text lost the decimals. It should be 105 F or
higher or below 40.0 F. I guess 40.1 is okay...
Tim
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| | From: | Keith | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:38:49 -0500 |
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| I'm building a light box now so I'll try to make it big enough for the batteries
to. I'm starting with a 100 watt bulb for now but two 40 watt bulbs may be the
way to go.
"Tim" wrote:
>
>"Keith" wrote in message
>news:1106492054.9a423b701a92b4c1ccbc86a3037f3e46@1usenet...
>> What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
>> My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The walls
>> are
>> insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of
>> the
>> low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge
>> vent
>> so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products
>> stored in
>> the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop
>> heated up
>> in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night and
>> does
>> get below freezing from time to time.
>>
>
>Don't forget about battery operated tools. Freezing temps aren't great for
>batteries.
>
>From the Dewalt Battery FAQ (NiCad):
>Does the outside temperature affect batteries? How?
>Yes. If the batteries are too hot (1050F or higher) or too cold (below
>400F), the batteries will not take a full charge. Attempting to charge
>batteries outside the 400F-1050F range can result in a permanent loss of
>runtime. When batteries are being charged and discharged a chemical reaction
>is taking place, and if it is too hot or cold the chemical reaction is
>disturbed causing a loss of runtime.
>
>Tim
>
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| | From: | Pete Bucy | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:19:38 -0500 |
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| A 100 watt light bulb puts off approximately 300 BTU's. If you place
it in the bottom of a closed cabinet that allows some ventilation
between the shelves it is more than enough to keep most water based
woodworking products from freezing.
If you cover the cabinet in one of the construction foam board
materials, it will be even tastier inside. Home Depot and Lowes sell a
small thermostat that plugs into an extension cord or an outlet. You
can then plug a lighting fixture into it. The device will turn on
around 40 degrees and off around 50 degrees F.
Some folks put a thermometer inside the cabinet so that they can
verify that it is warm enough to keep their glue and water-based
materials safe. Also, remember that if the power goes off, that you
might have only a very short time to empty the cabinet and bring the
contents to a location that is above freezing.
Two years ago, one of my friends who went through a seven-day power
outage in January kept his glue and water-based finishes from freezing
by rigging up a Coleman catalytic heater to keep his paint cabinet
from freezing.
The small model runs about 18 hours on a small propane bottle. It did
the trick.
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:38:49 -0500, Keith
wrote:
>I'm building a light box now so I'll try to make it big enough for the batteries
>to. I'm starting with a 100 watt bulb for now but two 40 watt bulbs may be the
>way to go.
>
>
>"Tim" wrote:
>
>>
>>"Keith" wrote in message
>>news:1106492054.9a423b701a92b4c1ccbc86a3037f3e46@1usenet...
>>> What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
>>> My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The walls
>>> are
>>> insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of
>>> the
>>> low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge
>>> vent
>>> so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products
>>> stored in
>>> the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop
>>> heated up
>>> in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night and
>>> does
>>> get below freezing from time to time.
>>>
>>
>>Don't forget about battery operated tools. Freezing temps aren't great for
>>batteries.
>>
>>From the Dewalt Battery FAQ (NiCad):
>>Does the outside temperature affect batteries? How?
>>Yes. If the batteries are too hot (1050F or higher) or too cold (below
>>400F), the batteries will not take a full charge. Attempting to charge
>>batteries outside the 400F-1050F range can result in a permanent loss of
>>runtime. When batteries are being charged and discharged a chemical reaction
>>is taking place, and if it is too hot or cold the chemical reaction is
>>disturbed causing a loss of runtime.
>>
>>Tim
>>
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| | From: | John | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:35:16 -0600 |
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| Biggest worry would be condensation and RUST on your stationary tools
Also, many glues advise NOT to let them freeze, and I would worry
about some of the finishing products as well, might be worth calling
the tech support folks for the products and ask THEM about THEIR
products.
But, MY major worry would be warming the AIR faster than the big hunks
of IRON and getting sweating/condensation and RUST on my tools
John
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:03:43 -0500, Keith
wrote:
>What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
>My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The walls are
>insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of the
>low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge vent
>so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products stored in
>the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop heated up
>in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night and does
>get below freezing from time to time.
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| | From: | Lawrence L'Hote | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:40:09 GMT |
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"John" wrote in message
news:hun7v0d4reogno63dhvl0576fj2lfuoa1p@4ax.com...
> Biggest worry would be condensation and RUST on your stationary tools
----snip-------
> > But, MY major worry would be warming the AIR faster than the big hunks
> of IRON and getting sweating/condensation and RUST on my tools
About a week or so it warmed up here to around 65 deg. The sidewalks were
wet with condensation as was the garage floor as was my Unisaw table.
Boeshield didn't help much. I finally had to work off the rust with a 3M
maroon pad on my finishing sander. And then when it got cold again, the
blade crank squeeks when I had to cut some picture frames.
Larry
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| | From: | Edwin Pawlowski | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:27:11 GMT |
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"Lawrence L'Hote" wrote in message
>
I finally had to work off the rust with a 3M
> maroon pad on my finishing sander.
> Larry
>
>
Top Saver. Incredibly good stuff.
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| | From: | snowdog | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:04:03 GMT |
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| A trick my father-in-law uses in his shop. Put all of you glues, etc.. into
a small cabinet, also mount a light bulb in the cabinet and leave the light
on. As long as it doesn't get into the negative temps you should be good to
go, at the very least it should keep everything above freezing. The key
here is small cabinet, a light bulb does give off heat but not enough to
heat some the size of a refrigerator. If you have a lot of stuff to
protect either make two small cabinets or go to multiple light bulbs.
Remember to raise everything up off the floor of the cabinet to allow air
flow.
John C
"Keith" wrote in message
news:1106492054.9a423b701a92b4c1ccbc86a3037f3e46@1usenet...
> What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
> My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The walls
> are
> insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of
> the
> low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge
> vent
> so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products
> stored in
> the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop
> heated up
> in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night and
> does
> get below freezing from time to time.
>
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| | From: | John Manders | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:01:41 -0000 |
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"snowdog" wrote in message
news:TVPId.22597$iC4.2857@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> A trick my father-in-law uses in his shop. Put all of you glues, etc..
into
> a small cabinet, also mount a light bulb in the cabinet and leave the
light
> on. As long as it doesn't get into the negative temps you should be good
to
> go, at the very least it should keep everything above freezing. The key
> here is small cabinet, a light bulb does give off heat but not enough to
> heat some the size of a refrigerator. If you have a lot of stuff to
> protect either make two small cabinets or go to multiple light bulbs.
> Remember to raise everything up off the floor of the cabinet to allow air
> flow.
>
> John C
That's a good idea that I've used to prevent instrument senders freezing.
Use 2 bulbs though. That way when one blows, you are still protected.
John
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| | From: | Phisherman | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:24:59 GMT |
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| On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:03:43 -0500, Keith
wrote:
>What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
>My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The walls are
>insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of the
>low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge vent
>so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products stored in
>the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop heated up
>in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night and does
>get below freezing from time to time.
Keep glue, paint, and finishes from freezing.
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| | From: | Silvan | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:15:56 -0500 |
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| Keith wrote:
> so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products
> stored in the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the
> shop heated up in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17
> last night and does get below freezing from time to time.
Like everybody else said, don't let your glue and other freezables freeze.
Titebond can take a freeze or two, but many other types of glue will turn
into useless glop immediately after one freeze.
Most everything else should be fine. I haven't been bothering to take in my
finishing materials, and I've had an unheated, freeze-prone shop for a
number of years now. Mineral spirits based stuff will get too cold to work
in freezing temperatures, but it seems to thaw out just fine.
Alcohol-based stuff (ie shellac) doesn't seem to care about being frozen at
all. It needs to be applied above a certain ambient temperature for the
magic to happen, but it doesn't seem to object to being exposed to freezing
temperatures repeatedly. It can also be applied successfully at a much
lower temperature than any other finish I'm aware of, which was one of the
big lures of shellac for me.
I do most of my woodworking when it's hella cold out. Better hella cold
than 120 F, which is where my shop sits in any kind of sunny weather. It's
even gotten into the 80s out there a couple times this winter. I really
need air conditioning.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
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| | From: | Edwin Pawlowski | | Subject: | Re: Damage to woodshop if it freezes | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:46:17 GMT |
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"Keith" wrote in message
news:1106492054.9a423b701a92b4c1ccbc86a3037f3e46@1usenet...
> What is the harm if my wood shop freezes from time to time?
> My wood shop is a 20x20 separate building with a concrete floor. The walls
> are
> insulated and covered. The roof is 9 feet and has a pitch of 4 because of
> the
> low snow fall in the area. The roof is still open but doesn't have a ridge
> vent
> so it will hold it somewhat. I have glue and wood finishing products
> stored in
> the shop along with my tools. I use a propane heater to get the shop
> heated up
> in the morning and turn it off at night. It got down to 17 last night and
> does
> get below freezing from time to time.
>
It will ruin the glue (some can take a freeze cycle or two) and most any
water based products. I store all my finishing stuff in the house. I keep
any cordless tool batteries in the house.
Machines are not bothered. I've not had any problems with wood. I tend not
to do any fancy stuff from January to at least mid March though. While I'm
not aware of any wood related problems, I am aware of how I don't like
working in the very cold.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
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