I was at the USSailng National Sailing Programs Symposium in Miami this
past weekend, and talked to Steve Prime, of Gowriie Barten and Brett
insurance company. They are now covering windsurfing shops and schools.
The contact person there is Diane Leighton (800-882-2733) (fax: 860 399
3620)
You're Welcome!!! ;-)
Carolyn

From:	Chuck
Subject:	Re: insurance...finally!!! (ask and ye shall receive!)
Date:	20 Jan 2005 11:21:31 -0800

Dan Weiss wrote:
> Glenn: I have been working on this. So far, unfortunately, all I
can find
> is the following: each sailor has his or her own personal liability
policy
> (different from homeowner's insurance) that either does not exclude
> windsurfing activities or explicitly covers it in a rider; and/or a
general
> liability policy that covers the landowner for accidents occurring on
his or
> her property.
>
> I know we have been over this, but please refresh my memory. What
form of
> coverage do you seek? A personal policy for each individual that
moves with
> him, a group policy for a local windsurfing association, or a
national
> policy whereby your premiums go to pay for coverage of people you
don't even
> know?
>
> -Dan
>
> "Glenn Woodell" wrote in message
> news:22evu0p5rs45ipabbhq2tg867qvdm69j22@4ax.com...
> > Fine. What about us? We need liability insurance so we can get back
> > some beach access.
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> > On 20 Jan 2005 03:22:36 -0800, carolynboersma@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >>I was at the USSailng National Sailing Programs Symposium in Miami
this
> >>past weekend, and talked to Steve Prime, of Gowriie Barten and
Brett
> >>insurance company. They are now covering windsurfing shops and
schools.
> >>The contact person there is Diane Leighton (800-882-2733) (fax: 860
399
> >>3620)
> >>You're Welcome!!! ;-)
> >>Carolyn
> >

From:	Chuck
Subject:	Re: insurance...finally!!! (ask and ye shall receive!)
Date:	20 Jan 2005 11:28:51 -0800

Glenn:

The United States Hang Gliding Association has long had an association
insurance policy that helps maintain hang gliding launch, landing, and
access sites as well providing protection to land owners from liability
in the event of injury or death of a USHGA member resulting from a
crash/incident on their property. To become a full member of the USHGA
you have to sign a USHGA Liability waiver to qualify for membership and
the insurance benefits. See http://www.ushga.org/ for more info.
Perhaps US windsurfers should get together and form a national
organization similar to the USHGA that would allow the organization to
obtain a similar insurance policy that in turn would help regain, and
maintain beach access etc.

Chuck Rhodes
Chesapeake, VA

From:	Glenn Woodell
Subject:	Re: insurance...finally!!! (ask and ye shall receive!)
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:55:59 -0500

Fine. What about us? We need liability insurance so we can get back
some beach access.

Glenn

On 20 Jan 2005 03:22:36 -0800, carolynboersma@yahoo.com wrote:

>I was at the USSailng National Sailing Programs Symposium in Miami this
>past weekend, and talked to Steve Prime, of Gowriie Barten and Brett
>insurance company. They are now covering windsurfing shops and schools.
>The contact person there is Diane Leighton (800-882-2733) (fax: 860 399
>3620)
>You're Welcome!!! ;-)
>Carolyn

From:	Ellen Faller
Subject:	Re: insurance...finally!!! (ask and ye shall receive!)
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:26:24 -0500

As individuals, or as a club? If as a club, I'd suggest talking to
Gowrie, Barden and Brett.
Ellen

Glenn Woodell wrote:
> Fine. What about us? We need liability insurance so we can get back
> some beach access.
>
> Glenn
>
> On 20 Jan 2005 03:22:36 -0800, carolynboersma@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>>I was at the USSailng National Sailing Programs Symposium in Miami this
>>past weekend, and talked to Steve Prime, of Gowriie Barten and Brett
>>insurance company. They are now covering windsurfing shops and schools.
>>The contact person there is Diane Leighton (800-882-2733) (fax: 860 399
>>3620)
>>You're Welcome!!! ;-)
>>Carolyn
>
>

From:	Glenn Woodell
Subject:	Re: insurance...finally!!! (ask and ye shall receive!)
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:06:42 +0000 (UTC)

Talking primarily as individuals I guess. Club also. Who are these people?

We have club activities of course but 99% of my water time is on my own.

Glenn

In article , eleanor.faller@yale.edu says...
>
>As individuals, or as a club? If as a club, I'd suggest talking to
>Gowrie, Barden and Brett.
> Ellen
>
>Glenn Woodell wrote:
>> Fine. What about us? We need liability insurance so we can get back
>> some beach access.
>>
>> Glenn
>>
>> On 20 Jan 2005 03:22:36 -0800, carolynboersma@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I was at the USSailng National Sailing Programs Symposium in Miami this
>>>past weekend, and talked to Steve Prime, of Gowriie Barten and Brett
>>>insurance company. They are now covering windsurfing shops and schools.
>>>The contact person there is Diane Leighton (800-882-2733) (fax: 860 399
>>>3620)
>>>You're Welcome!!! ;-)
>>>Carolyn
>>
>>

From:	Dan Weiss
Subject:	Re: insurance...finally!!! (ask and ye shall receive!)
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:39:17 -0500

Glenn: I have been working on this. So far, unfortunately, all I can find
is the following: each sailor has his or her own personal liability policy
(different from homeowner's insurance) that either does not exclude
windsurfing activities or explicitly covers it in a rider; and/or a general
liability policy that covers the landowner for accidents occurring on his or
her property.

I know we have been over this, but please refresh my memory. What form of
coverage do you seek? A personal policy for each individual that moves with
him, a group policy for a local windsurfing association, or a national
policy whereby your premiums go to pay for coverage of people you don't even
know?

-Dan

"Glenn Woodell" wrote in message
news:22evu0p5rs45ipabbhq2tg867qvdm69j22@4ax.com...
> Fine. What about us? We need liability insurance so we can get back
> some beach access.
>
> Glenn
>
> On 20 Jan 2005 03:22:36 -0800, carolynboersma@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>I was at the USSailng National Sailing Programs Symposium in Miami this
>>past weekend, and talked to Steve Prime, of Gowriie Barten and Brett
>>insurance company. They are now covering windsurfing shops and schools.
>>The contact person there is Diane Leighton (800-882-2733) (fax: 860 399
>>3620)
>>You're Welcome!!! ;-)
>>Carolyn
>

From:	Glenn Woodell
Subject:	Re: insurance...finally!!! (ask and ye shall receive!)
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:04:48 +0000 (UTC)

In article , dwus484@comcast.net says...
>
>Glenn: I have been working on this. So far, unfortunately, all I can find
>is the following: each sailor has his or her own personal liability policy
>(different from homeowner's insurance) that either does not exclude
>windsurfing activities or explicitly covers it in a rider; and/or a general
>liability policy that covers the landowner for accidents occurring on his or
>her property.

Where did you find this? I do not have personal liability insurance.

>I know we have been over this, but please refresh my memory. What form of
>coverage do you seek? A personal policy for each individual that moves with
>him, a group policy for a local windsurfing association, or a national
>policy whereby your premiums go to pay for coverage of people you don't even
>know?
>
>-Dan

Beats me. I'm talking about personal liability insurance such that if I am
sailing off of a beach, the owners will be satisfied that I have coverage
enough not to sue them for tripping on their boardwalk. Beats me how you cover
that but that's is what some entities want. They don't want to lose anything
for letting us sail off of their property. We cannot participate in city
events as a club unless we have some sort of liability insurance. We usually
get it by going through our local shop. I guess it would also cover things
like running into a swimmer or having a sail go flying through a crowd, none
of which has ever happened around here that I know of.

Glenn

From:	Dan Weiss
Subject:	New Windsurfing Insurance Topic (continuation)
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:54:17 -0500

Glenn:

I'm far from an expert on insurance, but I deal with it in some respects as
I help my clients navigate risk. Here's a thumbnail of some issues and
observations:

Having insurance sufficient to satisfy a claim against you for negligent
behavior comes in several forms depending on the venue. You might get this
coverage in a basic homeowners policy, but probably not to such a degree or
with to many restrictions as to make a separate personal liability policy
somewhat attractive. A personal (a.k.a. "general liability") policy covers
you for negligence that causes injury to another in cases where your home
owners policy simply do not cover. That's the same reason why we purchase
automobile insurance that almost always includes separate liability coverage
for damages you cause. Even though your homeowners might cover certain
scenarios involving negligence, it doesn't cover your actions when driving
your car. Likewise, a personal liability policy aims to cover those
occurrences that otherwise go uncovered by other types of insurance, whether
because the situation is excluded by the primary policy, or whether the
damages exceeds the maximum coverage. Sometimes you can "stack" these
policies together, such as if you are found personally responsible for a car
wreck that damages another, your car insurance might cover the first
$200,000, but a personal liability policy might cover certain amounts over
$200,000. This is called secondary or supplemental coverage.

Holding personal happiness with our coverage does nothing to provide
satisfaction to someone else concerned about the havoc we might wreck on
their property. Some 3rd parties simply require a copy of our declarations
page. Others require us to listed them as a "named insured". Still others
require listing as a "named beneficiary" to a policy where the rights under
the insurance policy flow to them, including defense costs and payment of
any judgment or settlement arising from a claim.

As I understand it (others might know better), US Windsurfing offered
insurance mostly to help organized events get off the ground. I understand
that US Windsurfing also offered insurance to recognized clubs so that they
could run events.

My view is that US Windsurfing should, if practical, provide a policy
whereby dues-paying clubs can gain coverage for club events. This achieves
certain reasonable goals: it provides members of those clubs a way to gain
certain coverage where the risk is greater (teaching a group of beginners or
running a regatta); it provides a way for the clubs to increase their
membership and provides another reason why a windsurfer might consider
joining US Windsurfing. Such a plan does not address your dilemma of
facing expulsion from a launch site.

For that case, I suggest nailing down what _exactly_ the landowner or
business requires you to have. I sympathies with anyone told not to launch
until "you get insurance to cover us" without being told what will suffice
in specific terms. It's been my experience that most insurance companies
will add a named insured without any additional cost to you. I hope I have
described certain insurance options in enough loose detail so as to help arm
you with the info you need to have a conversation.

-Dan
"Glenn Woodell" wrote in message
news:csp2t0$637$2@news2.news.larc.nasa.gov...
> In article , dwus484@comcast.net
> says...
>>
>>Glenn: I have been working on this. So far, unfortunately, all I can
>>find
>>is the following: each sailor has his or her own personal liability
>>policy
>>(different from homeowner's insurance) that either does not exclude
>>windsurfing activities or explicitly covers it in a rider; and/or a
>>general
>>liability policy that covers the landowner for accidents occurring on his
>>or
>>her property.
>
> Where did you find this? I do not have personal liability insurance.
>
>>I know we have been over this, but please refresh my memory. What form of
>>coverage do you seek? A personal policy for each individual that moves
>>with
>>him, a group policy for a local windsurfing association, or a national
>>policy whereby your premiums go to pay for coverage of people you don't
>>even
>>know?
>>
>>-Dan
>
> Beats me. I'm talking about personal liability insurance such that if I am
> sailing off of a beach, the owners will be satisfied that I have coverage
> enough not to sue them for tripping on their boardwalk. Beats me how you
> cover
> that but that's is what some entities want. They don't want to lose
> anything
> for letting us sail off of their property. We cannot participate in city
> events as a club unless we have some sort of liability insurance. We
> usually
> get it by going through our local shop. I guess it would also cover things
> like running into a swimmer or having a sail go flying through a crowd,
> none
> of which has ever happened around here that I know of.
>
> Glenn
>

From:	Glenn Woodell
Subject:	Re: insurance...finally!!! (ask and ye shall receive!)
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:59:35 +0000 (UTC)

Thanks Chuck. Good to see you here. United Stated Windsurfing is such an
entity but so far no individual insurance as you mention. Hopefully the powers
that be will see this and take it.

Glenn

In article <1106249331.712642.137850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
windnc1@yahoo.com says...
>
>Glenn:
>
>The United States Hang Gliding Association has long had an association
>insurance policy that helps maintain hang gliding launch, landing, and
>access sites as well providing protection to land owners from liability
>in the event of injury or death of a USHGA member resulting from a
>crash/incident on their property. To become a full member of the USHGA
>you have to sign a USHGA Liability waiver to qualify for membership and
>the insurance benefits. See http://www.ushga.org/ for more info.
>Perhaps US windsurfers should get together and form a national
>organization similar to the USHGA that would allow the organization to
>obtain a similar insurance policy that in turn would help regain, and
>maintain beach access etc.
>
>Chuck Rhodes
>Chesapeake, VA
>

From:	carolynboersma at yahoo.com
Subject:	Re: New Windsurfing Insurance Topic (continuation)
Date:	20 Jan 2005 16:01:39 -0800

If someone out there has the expertice to help USWA work thru the
insurance issues, I am 100% certain we would take you up on it!
Carolyn

From:	Dan Weiss
Subject:	Re: New Windsurfing Insurance Topic (continuation)
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:52:28 -0500

Absolutely !!
-Dan
wrote in message
news:1106265699.746788.320740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> If someone out there has the expertice to help USWA work thru the
> insurance issues, I am 100% certain we would take you up on it!
> Carolyn
>

From:	Chuck
Subject:	Re: insurance...finally!!! (ask and ye shall receive!)
Date:	20 Jan 2005 11:21:26 -0800