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|
 | | From: | carrieo at teleport.com | | Subject: | Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | 16 Jan 2005 18:59:53 -0800 |
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|
 | I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
|
|
| | From: | Mike F | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:20:04 -0800 |
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| Some of you are making a lot of assumptions for not having used a Goretex
suit yet.
1. I've spent MANY hours - certainly over a hundred -- IN the water in mine,
up to an hour at a time in a long swim . . . bone dry.
2. I've also gotten a few ounces in an ankle cuff in a reach, on a plane, if
the slipstream happened to hit the seal juuuuuust right, which it usually
does in a few hours of sailing. Other sessions stay bone dry, despite dozens
of crashes.
3. Fleece works just fine under a Goretex suit. I've never perceived
compression to be an issue, even though I walk way out in chest-deep water
almost every time I launch (wind shadow). Swimming keeps our legs near the
surface. But I no longer sail in water < 47 or so, so maybe I'd notice
compression if I sailed in icy water.
4. Nor have I ever noticed any stiffness in the fleece-bag combination. I
have no problem lifting my knee to my chin and my heel to my butt when
waterstarting, for example.
5. Water in the suit weighs the same whether it's soaked into cotton sweat
pants, lying between the fibers of fleece, pooling at our ankles beneath
Thinsulate pants, or in our bladder.
5. Good fleece insulates when wet, and water in the bag, other than some
ounces pooled at the ankle, leaves the bag if it's Goretex.
6. A Goretex suit is very comfortable and practical without insulation under
it. I've worn just boxers and a tee shirt under mine, but a cheap, thin wet
suit is far cheaper for those conditions. Save the wear and tear for cooler
days.
7. Goretex suits and non-breathing Ocean Rodeo suits are very different
animals. Imagine the difference between pajamas and a plastic body bag.
8. Neoprene suits offer FAR les buoyancy than a bag, unless the bag suit is
torn open and flooded. Only if I work at it can I deflate my bag completely,
and I prefer some air in it for the added buoyancy and the controllable
insulation. To change my float or warmth, I just change the amount of air in
the suit real time.
9. And I have yet to feel as comfortable on shore for extended periods in
neoprene as I do in my yellow pajamas.
10. BUT . . . *B*U*T* . . . if this second Kokatat doesn't keep the water
out any longer than the first, I try NRS's breathable bag next time.
Mike \m/
|
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| | From: | Paul Braunbehrens | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:42:07 -0800 |
|
|
| In article , Mike F
wrote:
> Some of you are making a lot of assumptions for not having used a Goretex
> suit yet.
> 5. Water in the suit weighs the same whether it's soaked into cotton sweat
> pants, lying between the fibers of fleece, pooling at our ankles beneath
> Thinsulate pants, or in our bladder.
Yes, water weighs the same, however, if you are wearing something that
holds the water it will severely impair your ability to move around.
Just try swimming with a heavy wool coat if you don't believe me (don't
drown yourself though, otherwise the FFF'ers will have won ;-O )
> 5. Good fleece insulates when wet, and water in the bag, other than some
> ounces pooled at the ankle, leaves the bag if it's Goretex.
I don't deny that fleece insulates when wet. So does wool, or cotton.
Thinsulate doesn't get wet. If you throw a thinsulate garment in the
water and come back the next morning it will still be floating dry on
the surface. The reason is that the fibers are so tiny that the water
can't get in.
> 8. Neoprene suits offer FAR les buoyancy than a bag, unless the bag suit is
> torn open and flooded.
As far as I'm concerned this whole discussion is about torn and flooded
suits. I really don't care how well a suit and undergarment perform
when working perfectly, if they will kill me when flooded.
The goretex suit sounds interesting though....
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| | From: | WARDOG | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:19:59 -0800 |
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| Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
>> As far as I'm concerned this whole discussion is about torn and flooded
>> suits. I really don't care how well a suit and undergarment perform
>> when working perfectly, if they will kill me when flooded.
>>
> Just try swimming with a heavy wool coat if you don't believe me (don't
> drown yourself though, otherwise the FFF'ers will have won ;-O )
>> In article , Mike F
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Some of you are making a lot of assumptions for not having used a Goretex
>>>suit yet.
Gezzus H Murphy!!!
How much of this talk is *real world*?
How many sailors have actually drowned in a bag suit?
Count them on one hand?
I can't think of one, but I'm sure it's happened...
Mike's claim of 100 hours in the water in a bag suit...
That's 6000 minutes...in a normal sesh, I may be in the H20 no more than
10 minutes in a 3 hour session and I'm a wavesailor...when I'm at the
lake, there's times I stay totally dry...
It would take me 600 windsurfing sessions at 10 minutes/session to rack
up that much time lounging around in frigid H20 that I would even wear a
bag suit...I overheated at 48* H20...and in water that's cold enough to
wear a bag suit, I guaranfreakintee, nobody is taking there time getting
back on their board...
Since Mike doesn't seem to sail from November to May when it's cold
enough on the Columbia to justify a bag suit, I'd have to assume that he
wears his bag suit all Summer and lays around in the water in it, trying
to cool down because it's too damn hot?!?!...;-)
WARDOG
http://surfingsports.com
> In article , Mike F
> wrote:
>
>
>>Some of you are making a lot of assumptions for not having used a Goretex
>>suit yet.
>
>
>
>>5. Water in the suit weighs the same whether it's soaked into cotton sweat
>>pants, lying between the fibers of fleece, pooling at our ankles beneath
>>Thinsulate pants, or in our bladder.
>
>
> Yes, water weighs the same, however, if you are wearing something that
> holds the water it will severely impair your ability to move around.
> Just try swimming with a heavy wool coat if you don't believe me (don't
> drown yourself though, otherwise the FFF'ers will have won ;-O )
>
>
>>5. Good fleece insulates when wet, and water in the bag, other than some
>>ounces pooled at the ankle, leaves the bag if it's Goretex.
>
>
> I don't deny that fleece insulates when wet. So does wool, or cotton.
> Thinsulate doesn't get wet. If you throw a thinsulate garment in the
> water and come back the next morning it will still be floating dry on
> the surface. The reason is that the fibers are so tiny that the water
> can't get in.
>
>
>
>>8. Neoprene suits offer FAR les buoyancy than a bag, unless the bag suit is
>>torn open and flooded.
>
>
> As far as I'm concerned this whole discussion is about torn and flooded
> suits. I really don't care how well a suit and undergarment perform
> when working perfectly, if they will kill me when flooded.
>
> The goretex suit sounds interesting though....
|
|
| | From: | Paul Braunbehrens | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:54:43 -0800 |
|
|
| In article , WARDOG
wrote:
> Gezzus H Murphy!!!
> How much of this talk is *real world*?
I mentioned at the start of this thread that I've never sailed in a
drysuit.
> How many sailors have actually drowned in a bag suit?
I don't know. How many sailors sail in a drysuit? How many do it in
potentially dangerous conditions? If we are talking sailing, not just
windsurfing, then I'd venture to guess that quite a few people have
drowned from being in the water with inadequate exposure protection.
I think that if you need a drysuit to sail and do it in conditions
where you can't exit the water quickly, then you need a suit/undies
combo that will still keep you alive if it floods.
If you sail in conditions where you can get to shore quickly, or maybe
don't really need a drysuit for thermal protection, etc. then it's a
different ball game altogether. Heck, you could just wear fleece and
quit sailing if you fall in.
I guess what I'm saying is that if you are in conditions where you may
have to swim for an hour in 50 degree water then you better make damn
sure that
A) you can swim in a torn suit.
B) it will keep you warm enough so that you don't die.
Play safe, live to play another day.
|
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| | From: | Ray Kuntz | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:55:34 -0600 |
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| Paul,
Years ago the US Coast Guard did a cold water survivability study of
ripped drysuits, bag type vs. neo, and found what you're addressing to
be legit. However it's my understanding that modern bag suits are the
equipment of choice for rescue/industrial/demolition type underwater
work, white water rafters and kayakers today. So perhaps the testing was
a worst case scenario stuff that when factored for the real world and
modern materials isn't too meaningful.
You seem to be assuming a systemic catastrophic failure to a bag type
suit that the users of them on previous threads over the years (do a
google search), just haven't seen. Check out the concurrent insurance
thread, somehow I doubt if your concerns are real world ones, if they
were loss claims, liabilty exposure and high premiums would have
bankrupted the mfgrs by now.
Ray
Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> In article , WARDOG
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Gezzus H Murphy!!!
>>How much of this talk is *real world*?
>
>
> I mentioned at the start of this thread that I've never sailed in a
> drysuit.
>
>
>>How many sailors have actually drowned in a bag suit?
>
>
> I don't know. How many sailors sail in a drysuit? How many do it in
> potentially dangerous conditions? If we are talking sailing, not just
> windsurfing, then I'd venture to guess that quite a few people have
> drowned from being in the water with inadequate exposure protection.
>
> I think that if you need a drysuit to sail and do it in conditions
> where you can't exit the water quickly, then you need a suit/undies
> combo that will still keep you alive if it floods.
>
> If you sail in conditions where you can get to shore quickly, or maybe
> don't really need a drysuit for thermal protection, etc. then it's a
> different ball game altogether. Heck, you could just wear fleece and
> quit sailing if you fall in.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that if you are in conditions where you may
> have to swim for an hour in 50 degree water then you better make damn
> sure that
>
> A) you can swim in a torn suit.
> B) it will keep you warm enough so that you don't die.
>
> Play safe, live to play another day.
|
|
| | From: | Paul Braunbehrens | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:36:51 -0800 |
|
|
| Ray, a buddy of mine had the neck seal on his suit delaminate
completely while in the water.
I agree that what I'm adressing isn't a likely occurence, but it is a
possible risk factor.
The best way to deal with it is to try it in a controlled environment.
In article <10v5md39hk7a529@corp.supernews.com>, Ray Kuntz
wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Years ago the US Coast Guard did a cold water survivability study of
> ripped drysuits, bag type vs. neo, and found what you're addressing to
> be legit. However it's my understanding that modern bag suits are the
> equipment of choice for rescue/industrial/demolition type underwater
> work, white water rafters and kayakers today. So perhaps the testing was
> a worst case scenario stuff that when factored for the real world and
> modern materials isn't too meaningful.
>
> You seem to be assuming a systemic catastrophic failure to a bag type
> suit that the users of them on previous threads over the years (do a
> google search), just haven't seen. Check out the concurrent insurance
> thread, somehow I doubt if your concerns are real world ones, if they
> were loss claims, liabilty exposure and high premiums would have
> bankrupted the mfgrs by now.
>
> Ray
>
> Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
>
> > In article , WARDOG
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Gezzus H Murphy!!!
> >>How much of this talk is *real world*?
> >
> >
> > I mentioned at the start of this thread that I've never sailed in a
> > drysuit.
> >
> >
> >>How many sailors have actually drowned in a bag suit?
> >
> >
> > I don't know. How many sailors sail in a drysuit? How many do it in
> > potentially dangerous conditions? If we are talking sailing, not just
> > windsurfing, then I'd venture to guess that quite a few people have
> > drowned from being in the water with inadequate exposure protection.
> >
> > I think that if you need a drysuit to sail and do it in conditions
> > where you can't exit the water quickly, then you need a suit/undies
> > combo that will still keep you alive if it floods.
> >
> > If you sail in conditions where you can get to shore quickly, or maybe
> > don't really need a drysuit for thermal protection, etc. then it's a
> > different ball game altogether. Heck, you could just wear fleece and
> > quit sailing if you fall in.
> >
> > I guess what I'm saying is that if you are in conditions where you may
> > have to swim for an hour in 50 degree water then you better make damn
> > sure that
> >
> > A) you can swim in a torn suit.
> > B) it will keep you warm enough so that you don't die.
> >
> > Play safe, live to play another day.
|
|
| | From: | Bob Jacobson | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:47:08 GMT |
|
|
| Mike,
Can you swim in these Gortex suits? What happens if you get separated from
your gear a mile from shore? This cold weather sailing just seems too risky
to me.
"Mike F" wrote in message
news:lA_Hd.4483$gz1.3273@fe07.lga...
> Some of you are making a lot of assumptions for not having used a Goretex
> suit yet.
> 1. I've spent MANY hours - certainly over a hundred -- IN the water in
mine,
> up to an hour at a time in a long swim . . . bone dry.
> 2. I've also gotten a few ounces in an ankle cuff in a reach, on a plane,
if
> the slipstream happened to hit the seal juuuuuust right, which it usually
> does in a few hours of sailing. Other sessions stay bone dry, despite
dozens
> of crashes.
> 3. Fleece works just fine under a Goretex suit. I've never perceived
> compression to be an issue, even though I walk way out in chest-deep water
> almost every time I launch (wind shadow). Swimming keeps our legs near the
> surface. But I no longer sail in water < 47 or so, so maybe I'd notice
> compression if I sailed in icy water.
> 4. Nor have I ever noticed any stiffness in the fleece-bag combination. I
> have no problem lifting my knee to my chin and my heel to my butt when
> waterstarting, for example.
> 5. Water in the suit weighs the same whether it's soaked into cotton sweat
> pants, lying between the fibers of fleece, pooling at our ankles beneath
> Thinsulate pants, or in our bladder.
> 5. Good fleece insulates when wet, and water in the bag, other than some
> ounces pooled at the ankle, leaves the bag if it's Goretex.
> 6. A Goretex suit is very comfortable and practical without insulation
under
> it. I've worn just boxers and a tee shirt under mine, but a cheap, thin
wet
> suit is far cheaper for those conditions. Save the wear and tear for
cooler
> days.
> 7. Goretex suits and non-breathing Ocean Rodeo suits are very different
> animals. Imagine the difference between pajamas and a plastic body bag.
> 8. Neoprene suits offer FAR les buoyancy than a bag, unless the bag suit
is
> torn open and flooded. Only if I work at it can I deflate my bag
completely,
> and I prefer some air in it for the added buoyancy and the controllable
> insulation. To change my float or warmth, I just change the amount of air
in
> the suit real time.
> 9. And I have yet to feel as comfortable on shore for extended periods in
> neoprene as I do in my yellow pajamas.
> 10. BUT . . . *B*U*T* . . . if this second Kokatat doesn't keep the water
> out any longer than the first, I try NRS's breathable bag next time.
>
> Mike \m/
>
>
|
|
| | From: | sailquik (Roger Jackson) | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Fri, 21 Jan 2005 04:31:35 GMT |
|
|
| Good Point Mike,
If you are in a top of the line bag dry suit like the Kokatat GFE, all this
talk about compression of the undergarments (fleece, etc.) should not
happen if all the seals in the suit are working correctly.
If a Kokatat suit can "blow up" just from your body warming the air inside
to the degree that you need to "burp" some air out at the collar seal, how much
compression of the suit can there be. It's filled with warm air, and unless you
have it vented somehow, the air inside the suit prevents any compression.
The pressure down in the extremities may increase, but there will be no
"compression" to the loft of the layered garments inside the suit.
That's the way mine works.
Roger
Mike F wrote:
> Some of you are making a lot of assumptions for not having used a Goretex
> suit yet.
> 1. I've spent MANY hours - certainly over a hundred -- IN the water in mine,
> up to an hour at a time in a long swim . . . bone dry.
> 2. I've also gotten a few ounces in an ankle cuff in a reach, on a plane, if
> the slipstream happened to hit the seal juuuuuust right, which it usually
> does in a few hours of sailing. Other sessions stay bone dry, despite dozens
> of crashes.
> 3. Fleece works just fine under a Goretex suit. I've never perceived
> compression to be an issue, even though I walk way out in chest-deep water
> almost every time I launch (wind shadow). Swimming keeps our legs near the
> surface. But I no longer sail in water < 47 or so, so maybe I'd notice
> compression if I sailed in icy water.
> 4. Nor have I ever noticed any stiffness in the fleece-bag combination. I
> have no problem lifting my knee to my chin and my heel to my butt when
> waterstarting, for example.
> 5. Water in the suit weighs the same whether it's soaked into cotton sweat
> pants, lying between the fibers of fleece, pooling at our ankles beneath
> Thinsulate pants, or in our bladder.
> 5. Good fleece insulates when wet, and water in the bag, other than some
> ounces pooled at the ankle, leaves the bag if it's Goretex.
> 6. A Goretex suit is very comfortable and practical without insulation under
> it. I've worn just boxers and a tee shirt under mine, but a cheap, thin wet
> suit is far cheaper for those conditions. Save the wear and tear for cooler
> days.
> 7. Goretex suits and non-breathing Ocean Rodeo suits are very different
> animals. Imagine the difference between pajamas and a plastic body bag.
> 8. Neoprene suits offer FAR les buoyancy than a bag, unless the bag suit is
> torn open and flooded. Only if I work at it can I deflate my bag completely,
> and I prefer some air in it for the added buoyancy and the controllable
> insulation. To change my float or warmth, I just change the amount of air in
> the suit real time.
> 9. And I have yet to feel as comfortable on shore for extended periods in
> neoprene as I do in my yellow pajamas.
> 10. BUT . . . *B*U*T* . . . if this second Kokatat doesn't keep the water
> out any longer than the first, I try NRS's breathable bag next time.
>
> Mike \m/
|
|
| | From: | Bryan Lewis | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:50:16 GMT |
|
|
| I tried one to sail in the Ocean around Vancouver BC in the winter. It was
the warmest thing I've ever worn when I was on the beach or in the straps
sailing. Hands & feet were warmer to, I thought due to my warm body.
That said, it was very cold in the water while waiting to start. Just a
missed water start was enough to feel chilly. It's hard to explain until it
happens to you but the water is pressed tight up to your skin in the water &
it feels cold.
I tried wearing Fleece & Ward Dogs Mysterio & still felt cold. Once I had so
much on my legs that I had trouble bending them enough to get up on my
board.
Once I got out of the water, I felt warm even before I got sailing & back in
the straps.
I sold mine after 8 - 10 trys & went back to a Bare Polar Dry. It's not as
warm out of the water & my legs get chilled after a while but I like it a
lot better.
One of the reasons that I sold my bag suit was I felt that if I had to swim
for a 1/2 hr or so that I would be dangerously cold & that made me
uncomfortable. I've swam for an hour in a Bare with no problem.
Bryan Lewis
wrote in message
news:1105930793.316754.133610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
> Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
> the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
>
|
|
| | From: | jeff feehan | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:12:17 -0500 |
|
|
| Bryan, your problem is not uncommon with bag-type suits. i have worn one
winter dinghy racing for many years. when you are immersed, the water
pressure compresses the fleece-type underlayers, and they loose a lot
of their insulating ability.
it turns out that rescue suits for arctic oil platforms, fishermen etc. are
bag suits, _but_, the suits designed for these applications have a layer
of closed cell foam built in that doesn't compress nearly as much as
fleece.
obviously, one solution would be to wear neoprene - a closed cell foam -
under a bag suit, but that would negate the comfort/mobility advantage
of the bag suit. i think that most windsurfers don't spend a lot of time
in the water - a few minutes at most - so the suits work fine for them.
but, everyone who uses a bag suit with fleece should at least be aware
of the potential problem.
i have found that the water has to be pretty cold before it becomes an
issue. here on long island sound, i never really notice it before
christmas, but by february or so, when the water is really cold, i don't
really want to be more than a few minutes in the water. now, i would
never wear a neoprene suit in l.i.s in february, and i most definitely
am not windsurfing. dingy racing is safer - we have a lot of sailboats,
and a few rescue boats out, and dinghys are big enough that it is easy to
get out of the water.
jeff feehan
Bryan Lewis wrote:
> I tried one to sail in the Ocean around Vancouver BC in the winter. It was
> the warmest thing I've ever worn when I was on the beach or in the straps
> sailing. Hands & feet were warmer to, I thought due to my warm body.
> That said, it was very cold in the water while waiting to start. Just a
> missed water start was enough to feel chilly. It's hard to explain until it
> happens to you but the water is pressed tight up to your skin in the water &
> it feels cold.
> I tried wearing Fleece & Ward Dogs Mysterio & still felt cold. Once I had so
> much on my legs that I had trouble bending them enough to get up on my
> board.
> Once I got out of the water, I felt warm even before I got sailing & back in
> the straps.
> I sold mine after 8 - 10 trys & went back to a Bare Polar Dry. It's not as
> warm out of the water & my legs get chilled after a while but I like it a
> lot better.
> One of the reasons that I sold my bag suit was I felt that if I had to swim
> for a 1/2 hr or so that I would be dangerously cold & that made me
> uncomfortable. I've swam for an hour in a Bare with no problem.
> Bryan Lewis
> wrote in message
> news:1105930793.316754.133610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
>>Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
>>the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
>>
>
>
>
|
|
| | From: | Jeff F | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:31:31 -0800 |
|
|
| Jeff, how cold is the water?
I go by the air + water temperture rule of 100
like 50 water temp and 50 air temp ok to play.
less than 100 total and risk death.
I have orderd an Ocean Rodeo Suit.
Bare makes a full bag suit too, I gues the suit Bryan likes is were the
bottom is neoprean and top is a bag?
Oneal has come out with one, but is marketed towards wake boarders.
|
|
| | From: | Dan Weiss | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:34:38 -0500 |
|
|
| Jeff: The Bare Polar Heat is a bag on top of a farmer john-type wetsuit
(though with blind-stitched and taped seams). The suit also includes a
snap-in fleece "bolero" top. The rule of 100 is not quite applicable when
speaking of neoprene drysuits because of their inherent insulating qualities
and floatation. The worst thing that can happen to a neoprene drysuit is
that it turns into a neoprene wetsuit.
I love my Bare Polar Heat, it keeps me very warm with the fleece installed.
Paired with a hat, dry boots and gloves when necessary, I can sit in the
water for a _very_ long time and emerge pretty warm. The drysuit has two
minor drawbacks for me: the wrist cuffs are way too tight and cause my
hands to occasionally cramp; and the knees are covered with an abrasion
resistant rubber patch that seems unnecessary and makes a stiff-legged suit
that much more stiff. I don't really notice it when sailing along, but I
definitely can feel the resistance when jumping.
-Dan
"Jeff F" wrote in message
news:10ut9siabt4bk55@corp.supernews.com...
> Jeff, how cold is the water?
>
> I go by the air + water temperture rule of 100
>
> like 50 water temp and 50 air temp ok to play.
>
> less than 100 total and risk death.
>
> I have orderd an Ocean Rodeo Suit.
>
> Bare makes a full bag suit too, I gues the suit Bryan likes is were the
> bottom is neoprean and top is a bag?
>
> Oneal has come out with one, but is marketed towards wake boarders.
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
|
| | From: | jeff feehan | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:35:05 -0500 |
|
|
| Dan Weiss wrote:
> Jeff: The Bare Polar Heat is a bag on top of a farmer john-type wetsuit
> (though with blind-stitched and taped seams).
i was responding to the original post, and the next follow up, which,
i am pretty sure, were both talking about an ocean rodeo suit. from
what i remember, that is a full bag suit. bryan, the second poster,
was cold in his ocean rodeo, and switched back to a polar heat. i
was commenting on the likely reason for his bad experience with the
ocean rodeo.
i'm familiar with the bare polar heat - a friend with whom i sail
regularly has one. it has leaked since he got it. i'm gald yours
is working better.
jeff
The suit also includes a
> snap-in fleece "bolero" top. The rule of 100 is not quite applicable when
> speaking of neoprene drysuits because of their inherent insulating qualities
> and floatation. The worst thing that can happen to a neoprene drysuit is
> that it turns into a neoprene wetsuit.
>
> I love my Bare Polar Heat, it keeps me very warm with the fleece installed.
> Paired with a hat, dry boots and gloves when necessary, I can sit in the
> water for a _very_ long time and emerge pretty warm. The drysuit has two
> minor drawbacks for me: the wrist cuffs are way too tight and cause my
> hands to occasionally cramp; and the knees are covered with an abrasion
> resistant rubber patch that seems unnecessary and makes a stiff-legged suit
> that much more stiff. I don't really notice it when sailing along, but I
> definitely can feel the resistance when jumping.
>
> -Dan
> "Jeff F" wrote in message
> news:10ut9siabt4bk55@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Jeff, how cold is the water?
>>
>>I go by the air + water temperture rule of 100
>>
>>like 50 water temp and 50 air temp ok to play.
>>
>>less than 100 total and risk death.
>>
>>I have orderd an Ocean Rodeo Suit.
>>
>>Bare makes a full bag suit too, I gues the suit Bryan likes is were the
>>bottom is neoprean and top is a bag?
>>
>>Oneal has come out with one, but is marketed towards wake boarders.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
|
| | From: | Dan Weiss | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 01:34:40 -0500 |
|
|
| Sorry, Jeff, I was responding to the post written by Jeff
F who replied earlier.
-Dan
"jeff feehan" wrote in message
news:V5DHd.170$U%3.5@fe10.lga...
> Dan Weiss wrote:
>> Jeff: The Bare Polar Heat is a bag on top of a farmer john-type wetsuit
>> (though with blind-stitched and taped seams).
>
> i was responding to the original post, and the next follow up, which,
> i am pretty sure, were both talking about an ocean rodeo suit. from
> what i remember, that is a full bag suit. bryan, the second poster,
> was cold in his ocean rodeo, and switched back to a polar heat. i
> was commenting on the likely reason for his bad experience with the
> ocean rodeo.
>
> i'm familiar with the bare polar heat - a friend with whom i sail
> regularly has one. it has leaked since he got it. i'm gald yours
> is working better.
>
>
> jeff
>
> The suit also includes a
>> snap-in fleece "bolero" top. The rule of 100 is not quite applicable
>> when speaking of neoprene drysuits because of their inherent insulating
>> qualities and floatation. The worst thing that can happen to a neoprene
>> drysuit is that it turns into a neoprene wetsuit.
>>
>> I love my Bare Polar Heat, it keeps me very warm with the fleece
>> installed. Paired with a hat, dry boots and gloves when necessary, I can
>> sit in the water for a _very_ long time and emerge pretty warm. The
>> drysuit has two minor drawbacks for me: the wrist cuffs are way too
>> tight and cause my hands to occasionally cramp; and the knees are covered
>> with an abrasion resistant rubber patch that seems unnecessary and makes
>> a stiff-legged suit that much more stiff. I don't really notice it when
>> sailing along, but I definitely can feel the resistance when jumping.
>>
>> -Dan
>> "Jeff F" wrote in message
>> news:10ut9siabt4bk55@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>Jeff, how cold is the water?
>>>
>>>I go by the air + water temperture rule of 100
>>>
>>>like 50 water temp and 50 air temp ok to play.
>>>
>>>less than 100 total and risk death.
>>>
>>>I have orderd an Ocean Rodeo Suit.
>>>
>>>Bare makes a full bag suit too, I gues the suit Bryan likes is were the
>>>bottom is neoprean and top is a bag?
>>>
>>>Oneal has come out with one, but is marketed towards wake boarders.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
|
|
| | From: | jeff feehan | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:38:44 -0500 |
|
|
| Dan Weiss wrote:
> Sorry, Jeff, I was responding to the post written by Jeff
> F who replied earlier.
>
> -Dan
yeah - i see now: two jeff f's in one post.
jeff
>
> "jeff feehan" wrote in message
> news:V5DHd.170$U%3.5@fe10.lga...
>
>>Dan Weiss wrote:
>>
>>>Jeff: The Bare Polar Heat is a bag on top of a farmer john-type wetsuit
>>>(though with blind-stitched and taped seams).
>>
>>i was responding to the original post, and the next follow up, which,
>>i am pretty sure, were both talking about an ocean rodeo suit. from
>>what i remember, that is a full bag suit. bryan, the second poster,
>>was cold in his ocean rodeo, and switched back to a polar heat. i
>>was commenting on the likely reason for his bad experience with the
>>ocean rodeo.
>>
>>i'm familiar with the bare polar heat - a friend with whom i sail
>>regularly has one. it has leaked since he got it. i'm gald yours
>>is working better.
>>
>>
>>jeff
>>
>>The suit also includes a
>>
>>>snap-in fleece "bolero" top. The rule of 100 is not quite applicable
>>>when speaking of neoprene drysuits because of their inherent insulating
>>>qualities and floatation. The worst thing that can happen to a neoprene
>>>drysuit is that it turns into a neoprene wetsuit.
>>>
>>>I love my Bare Polar Heat, it keeps me very warm with the fleece
>>>installed. Paired with a hat, dry boots and gloves when necessary, I can
>>>sit in the water for a _very_ long time and emerge pretty warm. The
>>>drysuit has two minor drawbacks for me: the wrist cuffs are way too
>>>tight and cause my hands to occasionally cramp; and the knees are covered
>>>with an abrasion resistant rubber patch that seems unnecessary and makes
>>>a stiff-legged suit that much more stiff. I don't really notice it when
>>>sailing along, but I definitely can feel the resistance when jumping.
>>>
>>>-Dan
>>>"Jeff F" wrote in message
>>>news:10ut9siabt4bk55@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jeff, how cold is the water?
>>>>
>>>>I go by the air + water temperture rule of 100
>>>>
>>>>like 50 water temp and 50 air temp ok to play.
>>>>
>>>>less than 100 total and risk death.
>>>>
>>>>I have orderd an Ocean Rodeo Suit.
>>>>
>>>>Bare makes a full bag suit too, I gues the suit Bryan likes is were the
>>>>bottom is neoprean and top is a bag?
>>>>
>>>>Oneal has come out with one, but is marketed towards wake boarders.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
|
|
| | From: | D. White | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:28:20 -0500 |
|
|
| Keep in mind, that "Rule of 100" is a personal thing, lots of places get
good sailing below that "rule"...Use common sense and you don't "risk
death."
Don
Jeff F wrote:
> Jeff, how cold is the water?
>
> I go by the air + water temperture rule of 100
>
> like 50 water temp and 50 air temp ok to play.
>
> less than 100 total and risk death.
>
>
|
|
| | From: | Paul Braunbehrens | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:00:08 -0800 |
|
|
| I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
If you don't use undergarments, you are asking for it. In the water
there is basically no insulation. These suits are not meant to provide
any thermal insulation, only to keep the water out.
If you do use undergarments, you have several choices. You can go with
neoprene, which I think would be an excellent choice. The reason is
that it won't really compress unless you dive down, and it provides
flotation. Should the suit leak, you still have thermal protection and
flotation.
Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
Another very high tech option is to use thinsulate B. Thinsulate is a
fabric that has excellent insulating properties, and the B grade was
designed for boots and compresses very little. Also, it is quite
hydrophobic. It won't absorb water unless you really force it in
there. I would suspect that this would be good for people windsurfing
in extremely cold conditions, since it's lighter than neoprene, and
very warm. Probably too warm for most conditions... Remember the
video of the dude pushing the little iceberg out of the way so he could
get his board in the water? I think he would benefit from this.
I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
In article , Bryan Lewis
wrote:
> I tried one to sail in the Ocean around Vancouver BC in the winter. It was
> the warmest thing I've ever worn when I was on the beach or in the straps
> sailing. Hands & feet were warmer to, I thought due to my warm body.
> That said, it was very cold in the water while waiting to start. Just a
> missed water start was enough to feel chilly. It's hard to explain until it
> happens to you but the water is pressed tight up to your skin in the water &
> it feels cold.
> I tried wearing Fleece & Ward Dogs Mysterio & still felt cold. Once I had so
> much on my legs that I had trouble bending them enough to get up on my
> board.
> Once I got out of the water, I felt warm even before I got sailing & back in
> the straps.
> I sold mine after 8 - 10 trys & went back to a Bare Polar Dry. It's not as
> warm out of the water & my legs get chilled after a while but I like it a
> lot better.
> One of the reasons that I sold my bag suit was I felt that if I had to swim
> for a 1/2 hr or so that I would be dangerously cold & that made me
> uncomfortable. I've swam for an hour in a Bare with no problem.
> Bryan Lewis
> wrote in message
> news:1105930793.316754.133610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
> > Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
> > the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
> >
>
>
|
|
| | From: | jeff feehan | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:41:21 -0500 |
|
|
|
do you have any sources for thinsulate b garments?
i think of the stuff in boots as being pretty rigid, am i wrong,
is thinsulate b flexible enough?
jeff feehan
Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
> them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
>
> If you don't use undergarments, you are asking for it. In the water
> there is basically no insulation. These suits are not meant to provide
> any thermal insulation, only to keep the water out.
>
> If you do use undergarments, you have several choices. You can go with
> neoprene, which I think would be an excellent choice. The reason is
> that it won't really compress unless you dive down, and it provides
> flotation. Should the suit leak, you still have thermal protection and
> flotation.
>
> Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
> leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
> boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
> would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
> depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
> even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
>
> Another very high tech option is to use thinsulate B. Thinsulate is a
> fabric that has excellent insulating properties, and the B grade was
> designed for boots and compresses very little. Also, it is quite
> hydrophobic. It won't absorb water unless you really force it in
> there. I would suspect that this would be good for people windsurfing
> in extremely cold conditions, since it's lighter than neoprene, and
> very warm. Probably too warm for most conditions... Remember the
> video of the dude pushing the little iceberg out of the way so he could
> get his board in the water? I think he would benefit from this.
>
> I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
> tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
> looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
>
>
>
>
> In article , Bryan Lewis
> wrote:
>
>
>>I tried one to sail in the Ocean around Vancouver BC in the winter. It was
>>the warmest thing I've ever worn when I was on the beach or in the straps
>>sailing. Hands & feet were warmer to, I thought due to my warm body.
>>That said, it was very cold in the water while waiting to start. Just a
>>missed water start was enough to feel chilly. It's hard to explain until it
>>happens to you but the water is pressed tight up to your skin in the water &
>>it feels cold.
>>I tried wearing Fleece & Ward Dogs Mysterio & still felt cold. Once I had so
>>much on my legs that I had trouble bending them enough to get up on my
>>board.
>>Once I got out of the water, I felt warm even before I got sailing & back in
>>the straps.
>>I sold mine after 8 - 10 trys & went back to a Bare Polar Dry. It's not as
>>warm out of the water & my legs get chilled after a while but I like it a
>>lot better.
>>One of the reasons that I sold my bag suit was I felt that if I had to swim
>>for a 1/2 hr or so that I would be dangerously cold & that made me
>>uncomfortable. I've swam for an hour in a Bare with no problem.
>>Bryan Lewis
>> wrote in message
>>news:1105930793.316754.133610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
>>>Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
>>>the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
>>>
>>
>>
|
|
| | From: | Paul Braunbehrens | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:22:02 -0800 |
|
|
| The only one I'm aware of is the stuff in the diving undergarment sold
by DUI, but it is too bulky, you need a lighter grade. You could go
with regular thinsulate (not the B stuff), and that is available in
lighter weights. It still compresses a lot less than polar fleece, and
perhaps more importantly, in the event of a leak still insulates quite
well. I'd probably go for a 100g weight for windsurfing, and you could
get it from any store that sells Diving Concepts stuff. I think you
may also find it at some sporting good stores for mountaineering
applications, but it might not be as convenient (bulky jacket, etc.)
Still, I think that neoprene is the clear winner for this application,
in terms of price, compression, flotation and hydrophobia. Why not go
with a thin layer of neoprene?
In article <5DOHd.1008$LI3.887@fe10.lga>, jeff feehan
wrote:
> do you have any sources for thinsulate b garments?
>
> i think of the stuff in boots as being pretty rigid, am i wrong,
> is thinsulate b flexible enough?
>
> jeff feehan
>
> Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> > I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
> > them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
> >
> > If you don't use undergarments, you are asking for it. In the water
> > there is basically no insulation. These suits are not meant to provide
> > any thermal insulation, only to keep the water out.
> >
> > If you do use undergarments, you have several choices. You can go with
> > neoprene, which I think would be an excellent choice. The reason is
> > that it won't really compress unless you dive down, and it provides
> > flotation. Should the suit leak, you still have thermal protection and
> > flotation.
> >
> > Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
> > leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
> > boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
> > would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
> > depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
> > even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
> >
> > Another very high tech option is to use thinsulate B. Thinsulate is a
> > fabric that has excellent insulating properties, and the B grade was
> > designed for boots and compresses very little. Also, it is quite
> > hydrophobic. It won't absorb water unless you really force it in
> > there. I would suspect that this would be good for people windsurfing
> > in extremely cold conditions, since it's lighter than neoprene, and
> > very warm. Probably too warm for most conditions... Remember the
> > video of the dude pushing the little iceberg out of the way so he could
> > get his board in the water? I think he would benefit from this.
> >
> > I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
> > tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
> > looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In article , Bryan Lewis
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I tried one to sail in the Ocean around Vancouver BC in the winter. It was
> >>the warmest thing I've ever worn when I was on the beach or in the straps
> >>sailing. Hands & feet were warmer to, I thought due to my warm body.
> >>That said, it was very cold in the water while waiting to start. Just a
> >>missed water start was enough to feel chilly. It's hard to explain until it
> >>happens to you but the water is pressed tight up to your skin in the water
> >>&
> >>it feels cold.
> >>I tried wearing Fleece & Ward Dogs Mysterio & still felt cold. Once I had
> >>so
> >>much on my legs that I had trouble bending them enough to get up on my
> >>board.
> >>Once I got out of the water, I felt warm even before I got sailing & back
> >>in
> >>the straps.
> >>I sold mine after 8 - 10 trys & went back to a Bare Polar Dry. It's not as
> >>warm out of the water & my legs get chilled after a while but I like it a
> >>lot better.
> >>One of the reasons that I sold my bag suit was I felt that if I had to swim
> >>for a 1/2 hr or so that I would be dangerously cold & that made me
> >>uncomfortable. I've swam for an hour in a Bare with no problem.
> >>Bryan Lewis
> >> wrote in message
> >>news:1105930793.316754.133610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >>>I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
> >>>Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
> >>>the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
> >>>
> >>
> >>
|
|
| | From: | jeff feehan | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:01:08 -0500 |
|
|
|
Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> Still, I think that neoprene is the clear winner for this application,
> in terms of price, compression, flotation and hydrophobia. Why not go
> with a thin layer of neoprene?
wearing neoprene under the drysuit somewhat defeats the purpose of wearing
the drysuit - when you sweat you'll get clammy, it's more restrictive
than fleece.
i really don't usually wear my suit where fleece isn't adequate, so i'll
probably stick with that.
jeff feehan
> The only one I'm aware of is the stuff in the diving undergarment sold
> by DUI, but it is too bulky, you need a lighter grade. You could go
> with regular thinsulate (not the B stuff), and that is available in
> lighter weights. It still compresses a lot less than polar fleece, and
> perhaps more importantly, in the event of a leak still insulates quite
> well. I'd probably go for a 100g weight for windsurfing, and you could
> get it from any store that sells Diving Concepts stuff. I think you
> may also find it at some sporting good stores for mountaineering
> applications, but it might not be as convenient (bulky jacket, etc.)
>
> Still, I think that neoprene is the clear winner for this application,
> in terms of price, compression, flotation and hydrophobia. Why not go
> with a thin layer of neoprene?
>
> In article <5DOHd.1008$LI3.887@fe10.lga>, jeff feehan
> wrote:
>
>
>>do you have any sources for thinsulate b garments?
>>
>>i think of the stuff in boots as being pretty rigid, am i wrong,
>>is thinsulate b flexible enough?
>>
>>jeff feehan
>>
>>Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
>>
>>>I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
>>>them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
>>>
>>>If you don't use undergarments, you are asking for it. In the water
>>>there is basically no insulation. These suits are not meant to provide
>>>any thermal insulation, only to keep the water out.
>>>
>>>If you do use undergarments, you have several choices. You can go with
>>>neoprene, which I think would be an excellent choice. The reason is
>>>that it won't really compress unless you dive down, and it provides
>>>flotation. Should the suit leak, you still have thermal protection and
>>>flotation.
>>>
>>>Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
>>>leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
>>>boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
>>>would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
>>>depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
>>>even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
>>>
>>>Another very high tech option is to use thinsulate B. Thinsulate is a
>>>fabric that has excellent insulating properties, and the B grade was
>>>designed for boots and compresses very little. Also, it is quite
>>>hydrophobic. It won't absorb water unless you really force it in
>>>there. I would suspect that this would be good for people windsurfing
>>>in extremely cold conditions, since it's lighter than neoprene, and
>>>very warm. Probably too warm for most conditions... Remember the
>>>video of the dude pushing the little iceberg out of the way so he could
>>>get his board in the water? I think he would benefit from this.
>>>
>>>I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
>>>tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
>>>looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>In article , Bryan Lewis
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I tried one to sail in the Ocean around Vancouver BC in the winter. It was
>>>>the warmest thing I've ever worn when I was on the beach or in the straps
>>>>sailing. Hands & feet were warmer to, I thought due to my warm body.
>>>>That said, it was very cold in the water while waiting to start. Just a
>>>>missed water start was enough to feel chilly. It's hard to explain until it
>>>>happens to you but the water is pressed tight up to your skin in the water
>>>>&
>>>>it feels cold.
>>>>I tried wearing Fleece & Ward Dogs Mysterio & still felt cold. Once I had
>>>>so
>>>>much on my legs that I had trouble bending them enough to get up on my
>>>>board.
>>>>Once I got out of the water, I felt warm even before I got sailing & back
>>>>in
>>>>the straps.
>>>>I sold mine after 8 - 10 trys & went back to a Bare Polar Dry. It's not as
>>>>warm out of the water & my legs get chilled after a while but I like it a
>>>>lot better.
>>>>One of the reasons that I sold my bag suit was I felt that if I had to swim
>>>>for a 1/2 hr or so that I would be dangerously cold & that made me
>>>>uncomfortable. I've swam for an hour in a Bare with no problem.
>>>>Bryan Lewis
>>>> wrote in message
>>>>news:1105930793.316754.133610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
>>>>>Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
>>>>>the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
|
|
| | From: | Jeff F | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:53:16 -0800 |
|
|
| I thought alot of windsurfers were using drysuits on the east coast, with
those expensive Kokatat suits, which are about the same as the Ocean Rodeo.
I am getting a bag drysuit because I have become increasingly allergic to
neoprene.
|
|
| | From: | Paul Braunbehrens | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:24:07 -0800 |
|
|
| Unfortunately if you are prone to these kind of reactions, you may also
develop a reaction to the latex used in the seals of the drysuit.
Whenever I Scuba dive in my drysuit I get a line across my neck that
looks like I messed with the Maffia.
In article <10uvkvqgcgh7q8e@corp.supernews.com>, Jeff F
wrote:
> I thought alot of windsurfers were using drysuits on the east coast, with
> those expensive Kokatat suits, which are about the same as the Ocean Rodeo.
>
> I am getting a bag drysuit because I have become increasingly allergic to
> neoprene.
>
>
>
|
|
| | From: | sailquik (Roger Jackson) | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:30:09 GMT |
|
|
| Hi Jeff.
Kokata Suits expensive.....?
Well, when you consider the comfort and longevity of a genuine Kokatat Goretex
Front Entry suit, I find them to be "not so expensive".
Combine the Kokatat GFE Suit, with Malden Mills Mysterioso layering garments,
all of them somewhat expensive initially, and you get the absolute best long
term comfort and durability.
Has my Kokatat ever leaked? Yes, I sailed in it for half a season with a torn
wrist seal.
Did that adversely affect my comfort or my ability to stay out sailing?
No. The cuff of my Mysterioso long sleeve cuff got a bit wet, but never cold.
One of my Gortex socks is leaking slightly from a few pin holes (from abrasions
and
pricks caused by me not being careful where I took the suit off. Does this
cause any sort of discomfort?.... No, I wear Mysterioso socks and a 2nd laryer
of Merino wool
mid weight hiking socks and other than the sock being damp, it's not a problem.
My Kokatat GFE suit is now about 8 years old, had the seals replaced twice, and
will get the socks replaced after this sailing season.
When I was using uncomfortable leaky neoprene dry suits, I replaced them every
2-3 years as they would start to get holes/tears/rips in all the pressure
points. No way to recover the original cost of the suit, so it went into the
trash.
With the Kokatat, the fabric is so strong and durable that I think it's the
last winter sailing suit I will ever have to buy.
Get the best, pay the price, and you won't have to worry about safety,
durability, or comfort for many years to come.
Hope this helps,
Roger
Jeff F wrote:
> I thought alot of windsurfers were using drysuits on the east coast, with
> those expensive Kokatat suits, which are about the same as the Ocean Rodeo.
>
> I am getting a bag drysuit because I have become increasingly allergic to
> neoprene.
|
|
| | From: | Steven Slaby | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | 22 Jan 2005 15:52:24 GMT |
|
|
|
Paul Braunbehrens (bakalite@insertthesamewordthatisbeforetheatsign.com) writes:
> Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
> leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
> boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
> would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
> depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
> even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
Funny how the manufacturers who sell fleece list on of its selling
features is that it still provides good thermal protection when
wet.
I've accidentally left the zipper open on my drysuit and water went into
the wetsuit and soaked the fleece but after a couple minutes I was
warm and stayed out for a couple hours and was toasty warm.
Steve.
--
----------------------------------------------
Ottawa Windsurfing http://ottawawindsurfing.ca
|
|
| | From: | WARDOG | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:54:18 -0800 |
|
|
| Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
> them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
>
> I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
> tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
> looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
>
> Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
> leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
> boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
> would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
> depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
> even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
Hi Paul,
I've got to challenge your very generalized fleece comments...
I've studied this stuff and I know a little bit about fleece...;-)
Here is what I can tell you...
Fleece products are not all the same stuff...although, guys like Peter
Berkey thinks the stuff he buys down at WAL-MART, that was manufactured
in Sri Lanka by child labor, is...;-)
Before anyone gets their feathers ruffled, skip down to the bottom of
the post and read a little about the man and company that invented
fleece, made partially out of recycled plastic. It was never patented.
Polartec® http://www.polartec.com/ is the name of a family of
fabrics...at least 200 differently engineered and formulated for
specific applications manufactured by Malden Mills by their relentless
product innovation.
http://www.polartec.com/fabrics/technologies.php
Malden Mills Polarfleece® is the original synthetic fleece fabric that
many people call the greatest invention of the last century.
From yoga to Navy Seal Special Op's...ice diving to the top of Mt.
Everest, fleece products are being used as an environmental barricade to
the skin and body...
There is no organization on Earth that demands more from its equipment
than the U.S. military.
Polartec® fleece recently received one of the highest soldier approval
ratings ever, second only to M&M’s candy in their ration kit.
http://polartec.com/products/military.php
The USMC Cold Weather Clothing Layer System incorporates multiple
Polartec® fabric technologies to produce a weather protection layering
system that will keep the end user dry, warm, and comfortable.
http://www.polartec.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/6f499375f0d7696b58935025934be5fc/pdf1/p_mil_pd_l1_shpnt_mech.pdf
Matter of fact, Google up fleece and drysuits and you'll get thousands
of results...
The best designed and engineered , Malden Mills Polartec® product, I
have found specifically for windsurfing, snowboarding, skiing, hiking,
surfing, kitesurfing, or any paddle sports is Mysterioso.
http://www.surfingsports.com/mysterioso.asp
http://www.polartec.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/210
Malden Mills also produces Polartec® Aqua Shell® fabrics in two versions...
1) The nylon-faced version is equivalent in warmth to 2.5 mm neoprene;
it is windproof, water-repellent, and offers great abrasion protection.
Polartec® Aqua Shell® fabrics are neutrally buoyant, which reduces the
amount of extra weights necessary for diving. Good breathability makes
it ideal for warm-water diving and as an insulating base layer for
above-water sports. It also provides warmth and wind protection in
action speed sports like cycling and skiing.
2) The skin version is windproof and waterproof, and can be seam-sealed.
Its surface sheds water to minimize evaporative heat loss, making the
fabric ideal for an outer layer in above-water sports.
OS SYSTEMS in Oregon/Minnesota manufactures drysuits for sport, military
and commercial diving, search and rescue / recovery (diving and surface
water), maritime and Coast Guard exposure protection, marine biology,
and a wide range of surface water sports and they recommend the same
type of PolarStretch® fleece undergarments that Mysterioso manufactures.
http://www.ossystems.com/
http://www.ossystems.com/undergarments/mts.htm
Anyways, books can be written on the science and art of fleece...
It's a perfectly good product for surface water sports applications like
windsurfing...and in particular, wearing under an Ocean Rodeo drysuit...
BTW, I have worn an OR Pyro drysuit with Mysterioso fleece undergarments
for windsurfing...too freakin' warm for Central Cali...
I overheated...H20 temp: 48*...Air temp: 55*...Wind: 5.0m2 weather...
DISCLOSURE:
I was not paid by Malden Mills for this post.
I respect the owner Aaron Feuerstein, who spent millions keeping all
3,000 employees on the payroll with full benefits for 3 months after a
fire burned most of Malden Mills, in Lawrence, Mass. to the ground in
1995. He could have easily retired and/or moved the business overseas.
http://www.opi-inc.com/malden.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/03/60minutes/main561656.shtml
Make sure that your fleece product says Polartec® though ,somewhere on a
label on the garment, or you may be getting an inferior fleece product.
WARDOG
http://surfingsports.com
>
>
>
> In article , Bryan Lewis
> I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
> them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
>
> If you don't use undergarments, you are asking for it. In the water
> there is basically no insulation. These suits are not meant to provide
> any thermal insulation, only to keep the water out.
>
> If you do use undergarments, you have several choices. You can go with
> neoprene, which I think would be an excellent choice. The reason is
> that it won't really compress unless you dive down, and it provides
> flotation. Should the suit leak, you still have thermal protection and
> flotation.
>
> Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
> leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
> boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
> would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
> depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
> even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
>
> Another very high tech option is to use thinsulate B. Thinsulate is a
> fabric that has excellent insulating properties, and the B grade was
> designed for boots and compresses very little. Also, it is quite
> hydrophobic. It won't absorb water unless you really force it in
> there. I would suspect that this would be good for people windsurfing
> in extremely cold conditions, since it's lighter than neoprene, and
> very warm. Probably too warm for most conditions... Remember the
> video of the dude pushing the little iceberg out of the way so he could
> get his board in the water? I think he would benefit from this.
>
> I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
> tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
> looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
>
>
>
>
> In article , Bryan Lewis
> wrote:
>
>
>>I tried one to sail in the Ocean around Vancouver BC in the winter. It was
>>the warmest thing I've ever worn when I was on the beach or in the straps
>>sailing. Hands & feet were warmer to, I thought due to my warm body.
>>That said, it was very cold in the water while waiting to start. Just a
>>missed water start was enough to feel chilly. It's hard to explain until it
>>happens to you but the water is pressed tight up to your skin in the water &
>>it feels cold.
>>I tried wearing Fleece & Ward Dogs Mysterio & still felt cold. Once I had so
>>much on my legs that I had trouble bending them enough to get up on my
>>board.
>>Once I got out of the water, I felt warm even before I got sailing & back in
>>the straps.
>>I sold mine after 8 - 10 trys & went back to a Bare Polar Dry. It's not as
>>warm out of the water & my legs get chilled after a while but I like it a
>>lot better.
>>One of the reasons that I sold my bag suit was I felt that if I had to swim
>>for a 1/2 hr or so that I would be dangerously cold & that made me
>>uncomfortable. I've swam for an hour in a Bare with no problem.
>>Bryan Lewis
>> wrote in message
>>news:1105930793.316754.133610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
>>>Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
>>>the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
>>>
>>
>>
|
|
| | From: | jeff feehan | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:42:54 -0500 |
|
|
| i don't know much about the wetness issue, but the compression
of fleece is definitely an issue for long term immersion in cold
water - i've experienced it myself, and i have pretty good fleece
- mostly patagonia.
having said that, fleece works well for most sports where immersion
should be for only a short time - windsurfing, kayaking, sailing etc.
if you know you will be in cold water for a long time, or want to be
prepared for it, you hould consider using some type of closed cell foam.
to my knowledge, that is how suits designed for long term immersion
are built.
also, what's cold water for one area, may not be cold for another
area. before i started frostbiting lasers, i was frostbiting interclubs
at larchmont yc - they sail through the season, and so i occasionally
found my self swimming in salt water very close to freezing. the boat is
not self righting like a laser, so i was in the water for more than a few
minutes. compression of fleece is a real issue in these conditions.
again, for windsurfing, fleece should be fine.
jeff feehan
WARDOG wrote:
> Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> > I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
> > them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
> >
>
>> I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
>> tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
>> looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
>>
> > Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
> > leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
> > boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
> > would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
> > depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
> > even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
>
> Hi Paul,
> I've got to challenge your very generalized fleece comments...
> I've studied this stuff and I know a little bit about fleece...;-)
> Here is what I can tell you...
>
> Fleece products are not all the same stuff...although, guys like Peter
> Berkey thinks the stuff he buys down at WAL-MART, that was manufactured
> in Sri Lanka by child labor, is...;-)
>
> Before anyone gets their feathers ruffled, skip down to the bottom of
> the post and read a little about the man and company that invented
> fleece, made partially out of recycled plastic. It was never patented.
>
> Polartec® http://www.polartec.com/ is the name of a family of
> fabrics...at least 200 differently engineered and formulated for
> specific applications manufactured by Malden Mills by their relentless
> product innovation.
>
> http://www.polartec.com/fabrics/technologies.php
>
> Malden Mills Polarfleece® is the original synthetic fleece fabric that
> many people call the greatest invention of the last century.
>
> From yoga to Navy Seal Special Op's...ice diving to the top of Mt.
> Everest, fleece products are being used as an environmental barricade to
> the skin and body...
>
> There is no organization on Earth that demands more from its equipment
> than the U.S. military.
> Polartec® fleece recently received one of the highest soldier approval
> ratings ever, second only to M&M’s candy in their ration kit.
>
> http://polartec.com/products/military.php
>
> The USMC Cold Weather Clothing Layer System incorporates multiple
> Polartec® fabric technologies to produce a weather protection layering
> system that will keep the end user dry, warm, and comfortable.
>
> http://www.polartec.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/6f499375f0d7696b58935025934be5fc/pdf1/p_mil_pd_l1_shpnt_mech.pdf
>
>
> Matter of fact, Google up fleece and drysuits and you'll get thousands
> of results...
>
> The best designed and engineered , Malden Mills Polartec® product, I
> have found specifically for windsurfing, snowboarding, skiing, hiking,
> surfing, kitesurfing, or any paddle sports is Mysterioso.
> http://www.surfingsports.com/mysterioso.asp
> http://www.polartec.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/210
>
> Malden Mills also produces Polartec® Aqua Shell® fabrics in two versions...
>
> 1) The nylon-faced version is equivalent in warmth to 2.5 mm neoprene;
> it is windproof, water-repellent, and offers great abrasion protection.
> Polartec® Aqua Shell® fabrics are neutrally buoyant, which reduces the
> amount of extra weights necessary for diving. Good breathability makes
> it ideal for warm-water diving and as an insulating base layer for
> above-water sports. It also provides warmth and wind protection in
> action speed sports like cycling and skiing.
>
> 2) The skin version is windproof and waterproof, and can be seam-sealed.
> Its surface sheds water to minimize evaporative heat loss, making the
> fabric ideal for an outer layer in above-water sports.
>
> OS SYSTEMS in Oregon/Minnesota manufactures drysuits for sport, military
> and commercial diving, search and rescue / recovery (diving and surface
> water), maritime and Coast Guard exposure protection, marine biology,
> and a wide range of surface water sports and they recommend the same
> type of PolarStretch® fleece undergarments that Mysterioso manufactures.
> http://www.ossystems.com/
> http://www.ossystems.com/undergarments/mts.htm
>
> Anyways, books can be written on the science and art of fleece...
> It's a perfectly good product for surface water sports applications like
> windsurfing...and in particular, wearing under an Ocean Rodeo drysuit...
>
> BTW, I have worn an OR Pyro drysuit with Mysterioso fleece undergarments
> for windsurfing...too freakin' warm for Central Cali...
> I overheated...H20 temp: 48*...Air temp: 55*...Wind: 5.0m2 weather...
>
> DISCLOSURE:
> I was not paid by Malden Mills for this post.
> I respect the owner Aaron Feuerstein, who spent millions keeping all
> 3,000 employees on the payroll with full benefits for 3 months after a
> fire burned most of Malden Mills, in Lawrence, Mass. to the ground in
> 1995. He could have easily retired and/or moved the business overseas.
> http://www.opi-inc.com/malden.htm
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/03/60minutes/main561656.shtml
>
> Make sure that your fleece product says Polartec® though ,somewhere on a
> label on the garment, or you may be getting an inferior fleece product.
>
> WARDOG
> http://surfingsports.com
>
>>
>>
>>
>> In article , Bryan Lewis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
>> them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
>>
>> If you don't use undergarments, you are asking for it. In the water
>> there is basically no insulation. These suits are not meant to provide
>> any thermal insulation, only to keep the water out.
>>
>> If you do use undergarments, you have several choices. You can go with
>> neoprene, which I think would be an excellent choice. The reason is
>> that it won't really compress unless you dive down, and it provides
>> flotation. Should the suit leak, you still have thermal protection and
>> flotation.
>>
>> Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
>> leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
>> boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
>> would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
>> depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
>> even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
>>
>> Another very high tech option is to use thinsulate B. Thinsulate is a
>> fabric that has excellent insulating properties, and the B grade was
>> designed for boots and compresses very little. Also, it is quite
>> hydrophobic. It won't absorb water unless you really force it in
>> there. I would suspect that this would be good for people windsurfing
>> in extremely cold conditions, since it's lighter than neoprene, and
>> very warm. Probably too warm for most conditions... Remember the
>> video of the dude pushing the little iceberg out of the way so he could
>> get his board in the water? I think he would benefit from this.
>>
>> I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
>> tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
>> looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In article , Bryan Lewis
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I tried one to sail in the Ocean around Vancouver BC in the winter.
>>> It was the warmest thing I've ever worn when I was on the beach or in
>>> the straps sailing. Hands & feet were warmer to, I thought due to my
>>> warm body.
>>> That said, it was very cold in the water while waiting to start. Just
>>> a missed water start was enough to feel chilly. It's hard to explain
>>> until it happens to you but the water is pressed tight up to your
>>> skin in the water & it feels cold.
>>> I tried wearing Fleece & Ward Dogs Mysterio & still felt cold. Once I
>>> had so much on my legs that I had trouble bending them enough to get
>>> up on my board.
>>> Once I got out of the water, I felt warm even before I got sailing &
>>> back in the straps.
>>> I sold mine after 8 - 10 trys & went back to a Bare Polar Dry. It's
>>> not as warm out of the water & my legs get chilled after a while but
>>> I like it a lot better.
>>> One of the reasons that I sold my bag suit was I felt that if I had
>>> to swim for a 1/2 hr or so that I would be dangerously cold & that
>>> made me uncomfortable. I've swam for an hour in a Bare with no problem.
>>> Bryan Lewis
>>> wrote in message
>>> news:1105930793.316754.133610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
>>>> Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
>>>> the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
|
|
| | From: | Paul Braunbehrens | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:58:15 -0800 |
|
|
| so i was in the water for more than a few
> minutes. compression of fleece is a real issue in these conditions.
>
> again, for windsurfing, fleece should be fine.
>
> jeff feehan
>
My concern is that if you are far out, and loose the board, the
compression of the fleece on your legs (which are 5 feel lower than the
surface) may not afford you much protection. I guess it all depends on
how far out you go, how cold the water is, etc. etc. I have done 90 mn
exposures in 48 degree water with a shell suit and 200g thinsulate, and
I was somewhat cold at the end. I have also had leaks into the suit
and often you don't even notice it until you take the suit off, because
the thinsulate continues to insulate you.
It is probably overkill for most Windurfing applications, unless one
goes with a very light weigh.
A buddy of mine had a catastrophic suit failure with a deco obligation
and nearly died of hypothermia. It pays to pay attention to the worst
case scenario...
|
|
| | From: | Dan Weiss | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:57:17 -0500 |
|
|
| YES, WD! Malden Mills is a company worth our support.
Here is a dated but terrific link to a measure of what makes Malden Mills
product worth every penny:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/03/60minutes/main561656.shtml
Note that in 2003 MM emerged from bankruptcy forced by the fire, but the
Feuerstein family no longer owns it as a result of MM's most recent
bankruptcy. A creditor's group led by GE now owns the company and is
looking for a buyer.
Any takers?
-Dan
"WARDOG" wrote in message
news:RuQHd.4283$ry.1698@fed1read05...
> Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> > I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
> > them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
> >
>> I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
>> tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
>> looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
>> Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
> > leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
> > boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
> > would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
> > depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
> > even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
>
> Hi Paul,
> I've got to challenge your very generalized fleece comments...
> I've studied this stuff and I know a little bit about fleece...;-)
> Here is what I can tell you...
>
> Fleece products are not all the same stuff...although, guys like Peter
> Berkey thinks the stuff he buys down at WAL-MART, that was manufactured in
> Sri Lanka by child labor, is...;-)
>
> Before anyone gets their feathers ruffled, skip down to the bottom of the
> post and read a little about the man and company that invented fleece,
> made partially out of recycled plastic. It was never patented.
>
> Polartec® http://www.polartec.com/ is the name of a family of
> fabrics...at least 200 differently engineered and formulated for specific
> applications manufactured by Malden Mills by their relentless product
> innovation.
>
> http://www.polartec.com/fabrics/technologies.php
>
> Malden Mills Polarfleece® is the original synthetic fleece fabric that
> many people call the greatest invention of the last century.
>
> From yoga to Navy Seal Special Op's...ice diving to the top of Mt.
> Everest, fleece products are being used as an environmental barricade to
> the skin and body...
>
> There is no organization on Earth that demands more from its equipment
> than the U.S. military.
> Polartec® fleece recently received one of the highest soldier approval
> ratings ever, second only to M&M’s candy in their ration kit.
>
> http://polartec.com/products/military.php
>
> The USMC Cold Weather Clothing Layer System incorporates multiple
> Polartec® fabric technologies to produce a weather protection layering
> system that will keep the end user dry, warm, and comfortable.
>
> http://www.polartec.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/6f499375f0d7696b58935025934be5fc/pdf1/p_mil_pd_l1_shpnt_mech.pdf
>
> Matter of fact, Google up fleece and drysuits and you'll get thousands of
> results...
>
> The best designed and engineered , Malden Mills Polartec® product, I
> have found specifically for windsurfing, snowboarding, skiing, hiking,
> surfing, kitesurfing, or any paddle sports is Mysterioso.
> http://www.surfingsports.com/mysterioso.asp
> http://www.polartec.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/210
>
> Malden Mills also produces Polartec® Aqua Shell® fabrics in two
> versions...
>
> 1) The nylon-faced version is equivalent in warmth to 2.5 mm neoprene; it
> is windproof, water-repellent, and offers great abrasion protection.
> Polartec® Aqua Shell® fabrics are neutrally buoyant, which reduces the
> amount of extra weights necessary for diving. Good breathability makes it
> ideal for warm-water diving and as an insulating base layer for
> above-water sports. It also provides warmth and wind protection in action
> speed sports like cycling and skiing.
>
> 2) The skin version is windproof and waterproof, and can be seam-sealed.
> Its surface sheds water to minimize evaporative heat loss, making the
> fabric ideal for an outer layer in above-water sports.
>
> OS SYSTEMS in Oregon/Minnesota manufactures drysuits for sport, military
> and commercial diving, search and rescue / recovery (diving and surface
> water), maritime and Coast Guard exposure protection, marine biology, and
> a wide range of surface water sports and they recommend the same
> type of PolarStretch® fleece undergarments that Mysterioso manufactures.
> http://www.ossystems.com/
> http://www.ossystems.com/undergarments/mts.htm
>
> Anyways, books can be written on the science and art of fleece...
> It's a perfectly good product for surface water sports applications like
> windsurfing...and in particular, wearing under an Ocean Rodeo drysuit...
>
> BTW, I have worn an OR Pyro drysuit with Mysterioso fleece undergarments
> for windsurfing...too freakin' warm for Central Cali...
> I overheated...H20 temp: 48*...Air temp: 55*...Wind: 5.0m2 weather...
>
> DISCLOSURE:
> I was not paid by Malden Mills for this post.
> I respect the owner Aaron Feuerstein, who spent millions keeping all 3,000
> employees on the payroll with full benefits for 3 months after a fire
> burned most of Malden Mills, in Lawrence, Mass. to the ground in 1995. He
> could have easily retired and/or moved the business overseas.
> http://www.opi-inc.com/malden.htm
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/03/60minutes/main561656.shtml
>
> Make sure that your fleece product says Polartec® though ,somewhere on a
> label on the garment, or you may be getting an inferior fleece product.
>
> WARDOG
> http://surfingsports.com
>
>>
>>
>>
>> In article , Bryan Lewis
>
>
>
>
>
>> I know a little bit about bag drysuits and undergarments, having used
>> them for diving for years. Here is what I can tell you.
>>
>> If you don't use undergarments, you are asking for it. In the water
>> there is basically no insulation. These suits are not meant to provide
>> any thermal insulation, only to keep the water out.
>>
>> If you do use undergarments, you have several choices. You can go with
>> neoprene, which I think would be an excellent choice. The reason is
>> that it won't really compress unless you dive down, and it provides
>> flotation. Should the suit leak, you still have thermal protection and
>> flotation.
>>
>> Fleece is another option, and probably the worst one. If the suit
>> leaks it will loose almost all thermal protection, and will turn into a
>> boat anchor, since it holds a ton of water. I suspect moving around
>> would be very hard, and getting on the board may be difficult,
>> depending on how bad the leak is. Also, it compresses immediately,
>> even if you just have your legs a few feet under you.
>>
>> Another very high tech option is to use thinsulate B. Thinsulate is a
>> fabric that has excellent insulating properties, and the B grade was
>> designed for boots and compresses very little. Also, it is quite
>> hydrophobic. It won't absorb water unless you really force it in
>> there. I would suspect that this would be good for people windsurfing
>> in extremely cold conditions, since it's lighter than neoprene, and
>> very warm. Probably too warm for most conditions... Remember the
>> video of the dude pushing the little iceberg out of the way so he could
>> get his board in the water? I think he would benefit from this.
>>
>> I've never sailed in a drysuit, I've only used them for scuba. I can
>> tell you though, that fleece is very dangerous in a drysuit, because it
>> looses all insulating properties when it's wet. Try it!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In article , Bryan Lewis
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I tried one to sail in the Ocean around Vancouver BC in the winter. It
>>>was the warmest thing I've ever worn when I was on the beach or in the
>>>straps sailing. Hands & feet were warmer to, I thought due to my warm
>>>body.
>>>That said, it was very cold in the water while waiting to start. Just a
>>>missed water start was enough to feel chilly. It's hard to explain until
>>>it happens to you but the water is pressed tight up to your skin in the
>>>water & it feels cold.
>>>I tried wearing Fleece & Ward Dogs Mysterio & still felt cold. Once I had
>>>so much on my legs that I had trouble bending them enough to get up on my
>>>board.
>>>Once I got out of the water, I felt warm even before I got sailing & back
>>>in the straps.
>>>I sold mine after 8 - 10 trys & went back to a Bare Polar Dry. It's not
>>>as warm out of the water & my legs get chilled after a while but I like
>>>it a lot better.
>>>One of the reasons that I sold my bag suit was I felt that if I had to
>>>swim for a 1/2 hr or so that I would be dangerously cold & that made me
>>>uncomfortable. I've swam for an hour in a Bare with no problem.
>>>Bryan Lewis
>>> wrote in message
>>>news:1105930793.316754.133610@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>I'm thinking about buying an Ocean Rodeo dry suit for windsuring in the
>>>>Columbia River Gorge during the winter. Anyone have experience with
>>>>the product specifically or bag type dry suits in general? Thanks!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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| | From: | Paul Braunbehrens | | Subject: | Re: Ocean Rodeo Pyro Dry Suit | | Date: | Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:51:07 -0800 |
|
|
| In article , WARDOG
wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> I've got to challenge your very generalized fleece comments...
> I've studied this stuff and I know a little bit about fleece...;-)
> Here is what I can tell you...
> Polartec® http://www.polartec.com/ is the name of a family of
> fabrics...at least 200 differently engineered and formulated for
> specific applications manufactured by Malden Mills by their relentless
> product innovation.
> From yoga to Navy Seal Special Op's...ice diving to the top of Mt.
> Everest, fleece products are being used as an environmental barricade to
> the skin and body...
Nothing wrong with polartec, and I agree that the guy deserves our
support, I saw a special on it on TV. However, for in water use
thinsulate is superior. It absorbs less than 1% of it's weight in
water. Grab your polartec and drown it in the sink, then pick it up,
how much does it weigh?
The navy, btw, conducted serious test with thermometers up the subjects
ass while submerged in ice cold water and they use thinsulate type "B"
for diving applications, along with a shell drysuit (A DUI TLS 350).
As far as I know they don't windsurf ;-)
The only problem with thinsulate is that it might be too warm.
Since this stuff can be fatal, it's probably not a bad idea to flood
the suit and see how cold you get using polartec (or whatever you use).
Don't do it when you're 10 miles out to sea....preferably try it in a
shallow unheated pool.
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