Recently had to change where I bought my shoes from. Was using Roadrunner
forever as a "club" member. Special club prices HAH! Had to look for a new
company because Roadrunner stopped carrying my shoe in a "B" width.
Holabird had them for $15.00 cheaper a pair, and shipping is only $4.95 for
whatever amount that you order. They send UPS ground. It took 3 days from
Baltimore to Omaha. Ordered 2 pairs of shoes and saved $40.00 total. Can't
beat that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From:	Phil M.
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:48:07 GMT

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from bearsfan27@cox.net of
22 Jan 2005:

> Recently had to change where I bought my shoes from. Was using
> Roadrunner forever as a "club" member. Special club prices HAH! Had
> to look for a new company because Roadrunner stopped carrying my shoe
> in a "B" width. Holabird had them for $15.00 cheaper a pair, and
> shipping is only $4.95 for whatever amount that you order. They send
> UPS ground. It took 3 days from Baltimore to Omaha. Ordered 2 pairs
> of shoes and saved $40.00 total. Can't beat that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. I've been using Holabird Sports for years. Whenever I'm looking
for a new shoe, they are the first site I check and usually the last.
Like Donovan said, RRS looks good at first. Their web site is slick,
their catalog is very nice. In fact, I usually use their catalog and web
site to decide what I'm going to buy from Holabird. One thing I find a
little annoying is their tiered pricing, depending on whether you're a
RAC member or a VIP member. If you spend $40 per year to be a VIP member,
RRS is hoping you'll feel compelled to purchase shoes from them in order
to get $40 worth of discounts per year. Shouldn't every customer be a VIP
customer? I have to pay extra to get special service?! Even with RRS'
special member discounts, Holabird is going to offer better prices in
most cases. Holabirds is also carrying more quality running apparel than
before, such as Sugoi. One thing that RRS offers that Holabird doesn't is
that if you're a RAC or VIP memeber they will exchange or refund any
product, used or unused, within 60 days. This could be good if you're
unsure of a particular model or size.

Phil M.

From:	lanceandrew at aol.com
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	23 Jan 2005 13:30:07 -0800

>Depends on what you're buying. If you're buying $500- worth of shoes,
RRS is
probably cheaper. If you want to buy 1 pair of shoes, and the pair
isn't one
of the RRS clearance items, holabird is probably cheaper, even assuming
that
you have a 20% coupon from RRS.
____

But that's not RRS's customer. Their model is in creating a
relatonship with the runnng enthusiast at lot like how LL Bean sees
their customer. That's why they with the manufacturers sponsoring the
pages invest in printing that pretty catalog with a couple of hot babes
and studly guys. They're selling to those looking to adopt the running
lifestyle.

And Phil's gripe is misplaced as volume=perks/rewards, a very common
business to extend discounts & perks to those committing to more
volume. I also don't compare RRS's higher shipping to Holabird or
anyone elses. I compare it to my time in going to a store....and in
that context as I suspect for all of us...it's cheap. The return deal
is fantastic as as buying shoes on line is like a box of chocolates, ya
never know what you're going to get.....especially since the shoe make
change your shoe with the season...as you know they will. Heck, you
might decide 50, or 100 miles into a shoe that it's not your cup of tea
and send it back, no problem.

What it really depends on is "how you buy". I don't thnk I've ever
bought anything at RRS that wasn't on clearance. I can't count how
many $90-$100 running shoes I've bought for $17-$22 a pop. I told this
whole ng about the $100 Adidas Wanaka TR GTX Waterproof Trail Shoe
going for $29 in all sizes. I actually ended up paying $22 for each
pair I bought after the coupons and perks.....I think I bought 7
pairs?...that's what everyone in my family got from me for Christmas
(it was a big hit too).

Besides...what if you want to buy a pair of Asics 2100 shoes from
Holarbird Sports?...what do you do? I saw lots of shoes Holabird says
cannot be purchased online. What's up with that? Can they not hammer
out the right to sell all their products with the manufacturers they
carry?

C'mon you guys....please. How in the hell are you hootin' and
holabirding...oops, I mean hootin' & hollaring about Holabird when you
get stuff like this

"We are sorry, but this item can not be purchased online
Please contact us for pricing and ordering info"

How are you guys not discussing and disclosing this one little snag wth
Holabird? Oh...is this a non-issue? Ha! I fully understand how/why
they have this policy....but geeezzz.. Wake me up when they have the
muscle w/the companies they carry to engage in ecommerce.

From:	Donovan Rebbechi
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:20:26 +0000 (UTC)

On 2005-01-23, lanceandrew@aol.com wrote:
>>Depends on what you're buying. If you're buying $500- worth of shoes,
> RRS is
> probably cheaper. If you want to buy 1 pair of shoes, and the pair
> isn't one
> of the RRS clearance items, holabird is probably cheaper, even assuming
> that
> you have a 20% coupon from RRS.
> ____
>
> But that's not RRS's customer. Their model is in creating a
> relatonship with the runnng enthusiast at lot like how LL Bean sees
> their customer.

Yes, IOW their model is getting you to spend a lot of money ($500/year or more)
at their store. I understand that it's a good model for them. It's not
necessarily the best model for the customer though.

> volume. I also don't compare RRS's higher shipping to Holabird or
> anyone elses.

I compare their total cost with total cost elsewhere. Sometimes RRS are still
cheaper even with their hideous shipping charges.

> I compare it to my time in going to a store....and in

For me, part of the cost to consider is the hassle of askign RRS to bill my
credit card for the right amount, and having to fight the USPS bozos on
campus to get my package.

> What it really depends on is "how you buy". I don't thnk I've ever
> bought anything at RRS that wasn't on clearance. I can't count how
> many $90-$100 running shoes I've bought for $17-$22 a pop. I told this

I agree. That's the way to do it, and it doesn't involve spending $500 a year,
so their membership thing isn't worth it for me.

> Besides...what if you want to buy a pair of Asics 2100 shoes from
> Holarbird Sports?...what do you do? I saw lots of shoes Holabird says
> cannot be purchased online. What's up with that? Can they not hammer

Well, how do you do it at RRS ? You're stuck with retail plus their hideous
shipping.

At holabird, you'd probably get it 20% off.

> out the right to sell all their products with the manufacturers they
> carry?

Not below the MAP.

The reason it's not an issue for RRS, is because they don't sell these shoes
at a steep discount. You may as well buy them in a store.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

From:	Jtiche
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	23 Jan 2005 15:53:02 GMT

>Holabird Sports-Great Seller

They may be ok but every shoe I looked at on-line said I had to call for a
price. RRS still works for me.

From:	Donovan Rebbechi
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:50:13 +0000 (UTC)

On 2005-01-23, Jtiche wrote:
>>Holabird Sports-Great Seller
>
> They may be ok but every shoe I looked at on-line said I had to call for a
> price. RRS still works for me.

One tip: for a lot of the shoes, you actually have to click on the shoe for
it to show you the price -- they don't show the price on the "brand" page
that has the shoes listed, but they do show it on the page for that shoe.

Another tip: you can search by price, and see what the search engine pulls
up -- the search engine *does* pull up shoes that don't have their prices
listed! It looks like the ones that don't have their prices listed should
still be 20% off retail or better.

For the more popular current models, you probably won't get much better than
20% off, so it's a fair bet that you'll get 20% off these.

I suspect that for most shoes whose prices are unlisted, RRS will sell them at
retail price, and then screw you on the shipping. So you'll probably do as well
or better with holabird (unless you're getting a dozen pairs or more).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

From:	Doug Freese
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:23:11 GMT

"Jtiche" wrote in message
news:20050123105302.11154.00000183@mb-m18.aol.com...
> >Holabird Sports-Great Seller
>
> They may be ok but every shoe I looked at on-line said I had to call
> for a
> price. RRS still works for me.

I'm in the run America club which gets me 5% off on every order. I then
find a 20% off coupon in currentcodes.com and end up with 25% off just
about every order. I always take the UPS option but I thought there was
an option to USPS for less money. In effect I doubt very much that
Holabird is much, if at all, cheaper.

-Doug

From:	Donovan Rebbechi
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:40:39 +0000 (UTC)

On 2005-01-23, Doug Freese wrote:
>
> "Jtiche" wrote in message
> news:20050123105302.11154.00000183@mb-m18.aol.com...
>> >Holabird Sports-Great Seller
>>
>> They may be ok but every shoe I looked at on-line said I had to call
>> for a
>> price. RRS still works for me.
>
> I'm in the run America club which gets me 5% off on every order. I then

See, this is the way their business model works -- it costs $25 to join the
"run America club", so you only get your moneys worth if you spend $500 or
more at their store.

> find a 20% off coupon in currentcodes.com and end up with 25% off just
> about every order.

But that doesn't include shipping.

> I always take the UPS option but I thought there was

They don't have a UPS option. The upgrade gets you USPS priority. So you're
still dealing with the postal bozos.

> In effect I doubt very much that Holabird is much, if at all, cheaper.

Depends on what you're buying. If you're buying $500- worth of shoes, RRS is
probably cheaper. If you want to buy 1 pair of shoes, and the pair isn't one
of the RRS clearance items, holabird is probably cheaper, even assuming that
you have a 20% coupon from RRS. Also, holabird will bill your credit card for
the amount they say they're going to bill it for -- half the time I've
purchased from RRS, they send me the purchase summary, but then go and bill
my credit card for some other amount.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

From:	Parker Race
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:02:29 GMT

"Donovan Rebbechi" wrote in message
news:slrncv82u7.n43.abuse@panix2.panix.com...
> On 2005-01-23, Doug Freese wrote:
>>
>> "Jtiche" wrote in message
>> news:20050123105302.11154.00000183@mb-m18.aol.com...
>>> >Holabird Sports-Great Seller
>>>
>>> They may be ok but every shoe I looked at on-line said I had to call
>>> for a
>>> price. RRS still works for me.
>>
>> I'm in the run America club which gets me 5% off on every order. I then
>
> See, this is the way their business model works -- it costs $25 to join
> the
> "run America club", so you only get your moneys worth if you spend $500 or
> more at their store.
>
>> find a 20% off coupon in currentcodes.com and end up with 25% off just
>> about every order.
>
> But that doesn't include shipping.
>
>> I always take the UPS option but I thought there was
>
> They don't have a UPS option. The upgrade gets you USPS priority. So
> you're
> still dealing with the postal bozos.
>
>> In effect I doubt very much that Holabird is much, if at all, cheaper.
>
> Depends on what you're buying. If you're buying $500- worth of shoes, RRS
> is
> probably cheaper. If you want to buy 1 pair of shoes, and the pair isn't
> one
> of the RRS clearance items, holabird is probably cheaper, even assuming
> that
> you have a 20% coupon from RRS. Also, holabird will bill your credit card
> for
> the amount they say they're going to bill it for -- half the time I've
> purchased from RRS, they send me the purchase summary, but then go and
> bill
> my credit card for some other amount.
>

I'm in the RAC and it is worth it for me because I can buy shoes, insoles,
etc. and try them out for 60 days and then return them if they don't work
out.
I generally wait and time my shoe purchases when there's a free shipping
offer
so the inflated shipping costs are meaningless. I rarely buy the newest
version so as not to pay the premium prices. Since my wife runs I can also
order stuff for her.

> Cheers,
> --
> Donovan Rebbechi
> http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

From:	Donovan Rebbechi
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:14:08 +0000 (UTC)

On 2005-01-23, Parker Race wrote:

> I'm in the RAC and it is worth it for me because I can buy shoes, insoles,
> etc. and try them out for 60 days and then return them if they don't work
> out. I generally wait and time my shoe purchases when there's a free
> shipping offer

Yes, but then you can't use the 20% coupon if you use the free shipping offer.

I understand that there are a bunch of nice coupons you can use at RRS, but you
only get to use 1 per order. At holabird you get 20% off MSRP and $5- UPS
shipping with every order, without having to "time" it, and without having to
argue with them when they don't apply your "coupon" correctly.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

From:	Phil M.
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:53:09 GMT

Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from jtiche@aol.com of 23
Jan 2005:

>>Holabird Sports-Great Seller
>
> They may be ok but every shoe I looked at on-line said I had to call
> for a price.

You can also email then for a quote. I think certain companys don't allow
advertising prices that are below their specified low.

Phil M.

From:	Dot
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 06:57:14 GMT

Phil M. wrote:
> Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from jtiche@aol.com of 23
> Jan 2005:
>
>
>>>Holabird Sports-Great Seller
>>
>>They may be ok but every shoe I looked at on-line said I had to call
>>for a price.
>
>
> You can also email then for a quote. I think certain companys don't allow
> advertising prices that are below their specified low.
>
> Phil M.

You might be able to click on icon - at least I did and got a price.

Dot

--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)

From:	Joshua Steinberg
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:39:08 GMT

Roger Hines wrote:
> Recently had to change where I bought my shoes from. Was using Roadrunner
> forever as a "club" member. Special club prices HAH! Had to look for a new
> company because Roadrunner stopped carrying my shoe in a "B" width.
> Holabird had them for $15.00 cheaper a pair, and shipping is only $4.95 for
> whatever amount that you order. They send UPS ground. It took 3 days from
> Baltimore to Omaha. Ordered 2 pairs of shoes and saved $40.00 total. Can't
> beat that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agree 100%! Used RRS for purchases in the past. But I went to buy
compression shorts which weigh a grand total of a couple ounces, yet RRS
would charge me $12.95 for shipping. Forget that! So I did a wide
search on the shorts (Hind, Brooks, and similar), and found Holabird.
They were great. Had to do an exchange with Holabird on gloves that
were the wrong size and they did a smooth, hassle-free quick-turnaround
job on that as well. So I'm a Holabird fan, too.
-- Josh

From:	Donovan Rebbechi
Subject:	Re: Holabird Sports-Great Seller
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 04:10:29 +0000 (UTC)

On 2005-01-23, Roger Hines wrote:
> Recently had to change where I bought my shoes from. Was using Roadrunner
> forever as a "club" member. Special club prices HAH! Had to look for a new
> company because Roadrunner stopped carrying my shoe in a "B" width.
> Holabird had them for $15.00 cheaper a pair, and shipping is only $4.95 for
> whatever amount that you order. They send UPS ground. It took 3 days from
> Baltimore to Omaha. Ordered 2 pairs of shoes and saved $40.00 total. Can't
> beat that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've also used holabird. They're solid across the board -- 20%+ off basically
everything (including current models).

RRS look good at a first glance, but they kill you on shipping and ship it
USPS whereas holabird ship unlimited quantities UPS for $4.95. The RR business
model seems to revolve around various tricks to encourage customers to make
very large purchases.

The USPS shipping is a major bummer for me, because the twits at the USPS
campus post office where I work are just plain hostile (sometimes they just
decide they don't want to deliver the package, so I have to go down there and
extract it from them) The big bright RRS label is great for getting the post
office bozos to intercept it. Eastbay packages make it through because
they just have a plain shipping label.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/