Hi all,

Engine permitting, I'll be at chocfest this weekend. (Yay!)

For a while I've fancied attempting some form of distributed effort
to make a "bullet time" video sequence of a juggling convention. I
think it would be fun to try and freeze the action in the gym at a
convention and have the camera "fly-by" people juggling. I've worked
out how I think this can be achieved without needing any special
equipment - but I need some volunteers to help.

If you're interested in helping, you will need:

- a digital video camera, or a digital camera that can capture
30 seconds of video at 30fps with a frame size of at least 320x240
(Although bigger is better) If anyone has more than one camera,
that would be helpful too.

- the ability to capture footage from the camera as an mpeg2, a WMV
file, or an avi file. *preferably de-interlaced* I would prefer not
to have mpeg1 on this occasion for quality reasons

- the ability to email me the captured footage within a sensible
timeframe (about a month at most) so that I can edit the final shot.

- some way of keeping the camera relatively steady. A tripod is ideal,
but I'm sure we can blag some chairs from somewhere if need-be.

- the willingness to take up to an hour out of the convention to
fool around with something that probably won't work very well.

The more people we have, the better the results will be, but I
think we should be able to get half decent results with about
15 people. We can have a go at least.

I'll make up some form of poster and put it up as early in the day
in as prominent a position as I can manage. (Probably by registration)
we'll probably try to either film an interesting workshop (club passing
or similar) or general gym people, and I guess it's likely to be
mid afternoon, sort of 3pm ish. But that will be confirmed on the
poster.

I'll start off the workshop with a brief description of what we're
going to try and achieve, how we're going to try and achieve it,
and then we will have a couple of goes at filming a 10-15 second shot.

So, anyone up for it?

-Paul

From:	Naomi
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:24:17 GMT

"Little Paul" wrote in message
news:slrncuvjuo.l3m.lp@Trillian.lpbk.net...
> Hi all,
>
> Engine permitting, I'll be at chocfest this weekend. (Yay!)
>
> For a while I've fancied attempting some form of distributed effort
> to make a "bullet time" video sequence of a juggling convention.

If it all goes well, videos could provide some very interesting shots:
rotating video, interspersed with rotated stationary shots at good freeze
moments.
I assume you will be going for an arc of cameras rather than a circle, so
the the cameras will not be in shot?
You will have probably thought about it already but a nice smooth arc of
camera positions, all at the same height ( or with prescribed height
differences) and all pointing precisely horizontally will help the final
product.
Ensure all your cameramen can actually use their machines!
Then all you need is to twiddle brightness of each video and cross fingers
the colours are faithfully, or at least uniformly produced. With an
incedible amount of luck the images of objects might be of similar size in
each video. Using zoom on a standard size target at predefined distance to
check out each camera first might help you here.

Great idea, a big project and a lot of post convention work for you I would
guess .

From:	Scott Seltzer
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	21 Jan 2005 10:01:25 GMT

Little Paul wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Engine permitting, I'll be at chocfest this weekend. (Yay!)
>
> For a while I've fancied attempting some form of distributed effort
> to make a "bullet time" video sequence of a juggling convention. I
> think it would be fun to try and freeze the action in the gym at a
> convention and have the camera "fly-by" people juggling. I've worked
> out how I think this can be achieved without needing any special
> equipment - but I need some volunteers to help.

I don't know much about special effects and the terminology so I don't
know what you're talking about exactly. But I'm guessing it's similar to
this nice one I found: http://web.mit.edu/mstrauss/www/vids.html - see the
Juggling Time video near the top.

-Scott

----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----

From:	Guy G
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:34:24 +0000

Scott Seltzer wrote:
> Little Paul wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Engine permitting, I'll be at chocfest this weekend. (Yay!)
>>
>>For a while I've fancied attempting some form of distributed effort
>>to make a "bullet time" video sequence of a juggling convention. I
>>think it would be fun to try and freeze the action in the gym at a
>>convention and have the camera "fly-by" people juggling. I've worked
>>out how I think this can be achieved without needing any special
>>equipment - but I need some volunteers to help.
>
>
> I don't know much about special effects and the terminology so I don't
> know what you're talking about exactly. But I'm guessing it's similar to
> this nice one I found: http://web.mit.edu/mstrauss/www/vids.html - see the
> Juggling Time video near the top.
>
> -Scott
>
> ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
>
Wow, that's really impressive. I'm curious as to how that was done
without lots of equipment, but I really can't think of a way. Perhaps
he just has lots of equipment...

From:	Eccles
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	21 Jan 2005 13:02:22 GMT

Guy G wrote:
> Scott Seltzer wrote:
> > Little Paul wrote:
> >
> >>Hi all,
> >>
> >>Engine permitting, I'll be at chocfest this weekend. (Yay!)
> >>
> >>For a while I've fancied attempting some form of distributed effort
> >>to make a "bullet time" video sequence of a juggling convention. I
> >>think it would be fun to try and freeze the action in the gym at a
> >>convention and have the camera "fly-by" people juggling. I've worked
> >>out how I think this can be achieved without needing any special
> >>equipment - but I need some volunteers to help.
> >
> >
> > I don't know much about special effects and the terminology so I don't
> > know what you're talking about exactly. But I'm guessing it's similar to
> > this nice one I found: http://web.mit.edu/mstrauss/www/vids.html - see the
> > Juggling Time video near the top.
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> > ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
> >
> Wow, that's really impressive. I'm curious as to how that was done
> without lots of equipment, but I really can't think of a way. Perhaps
> he just has lots of equipment...

.........that's amazing!

I really am intrigued about how that was done. I've seen the making of
the Matrix, and I still can't work it out....

----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----

From:	InsAnimal
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:13:01 +0000

Guy G, on 21/01/2005 10:34, wrote something like this :
> Scott Seltzer wrote:
>
>>Little Paul wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>Engine permitting, I'll be at chocfest this weekend. (Yay!)
>>>
>>>For a while I've fancied attempting some form of distributed effort
>>>to make a "bullet time" video sequence of a juggling convention. I
>>>think it would be fun to try and freeze the action in the gym at a
>>>convention and have the camera "fly-by" people juggling. I've worked
>>>out how I think this can be achieved without needing any special
>>>equipment - but I need some volunteers to help.
>>
>>
>>I don't know much about special effects and the terminology so I don't
>>know what you're talking about exactly. But I'm guessing it's similar to
>>this nice one I found: http://web.mit.edu/mstrauss/www/vids.html - see the
>>Juggling Time video near the top.
>>
>>-Scott
>>
>>----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
>>
>
> Wow, that's really impressive. I'm curious as to how that was done
> without lots of equipment, but I really can't think of a way. Perhaps
> he just has lots of equipment...

Balls suspended on string? if that is true though I am very impressed
with the guy for keeping so still... I'm probably wrong.

InsAnimal
--
Juggling code ( http://lpbk.net/misc/juggling-code.txt ) : B3/4 c s- g f
Email addy is insanimal, at leaze, dot, + as a word, dot, and then com.

From:	Luke Burrage
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	20 Jan 2005 21:33:50 GMT

Little Paul wrote:

> For a while I've fancied attempting some form of distributed effort
> to make a "bullet time" video sequence of a juggling convention. I
> think it would be fun to try and freeze the action in the gym at a
> convention and have the camera "fly-by" people juggling. I've worked
> out how I think this can be achieved without needing any special
> equipment - but I need some volunteers to help.

I'm not sure if I've shared this video here before, but I once made a
"bullet time" video of my 5 club juggling. I actually call it "budget
time" because it was done with just one actor, one crew member (the same
person as the actor), one camera and a lot of time. Take a look here
(mirrorers welcome for this video):

http://members.aol.com/lukeburrage/clubtimesmall.mpg

> So, anyone up for it?
>
> -Paul

Um... I'll lend you my camera.

Luke

PS. Didn't we come up with this idea for last year's BJC?

----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----

From:	Guy G
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:11:32 +0000

Luke Burrage wrote:
> Little Paul wrote:
>
>
>>For a while I've fancied attempting some form of distributed effort
>>to make a "bullet time" video sequence of a juggling convention. I
>>think it would be fun to try and freeze the action in the gym at a
>>convention and have the camera "fly-by" people juggling. I've worked
>>out how I think this can be achieved without needing any special
>>equipment - but I need some volunteers to help.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure if I've shared this video here before, but I once made a
> "bullet time" video of my 5 club juggling. I actually call it "budget
> time" because it was done with just one actor, one crew member (the same
> person as the actor), one camera and a lot of time. Take a look here
> (mirrorers welcome for this video):
>
> http://members.aol.com/lukeburrage/clubtimesmall.mpg

That's quite nice. I was thinking about doing something similar myself
a while back, but in the end I couldn't be bothered. Now that I see
you've done it, I'm glad I couldn't be arsed. It would've been a lot of
work, and it wouldn't have even been original. Plus I don't have a
video camera.

LP: Have you considered using ordinary digital cameras as well? At
least one would add an extra viewpoint and would require no extra work.
In fact if you used a flash on it, it could be a useful control
feature, making the editing easier.
Guy

>
>
>
>>So, anyone up for it?
>>
>>-Paul
>
>
> Um... I'll lend you my camera.
>
> Luke
>
>
> PS. Didn't we come up with this idea for last year's BJC?
>
> ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
>

From:	Little Paul
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:21:01 +0000 (UTC)

> Luke Burrage wrote:
>>
>> http://members.aol.com/lukeburrage/clubtimesmall.mpg

I was wondering when you were going to post that link luke. Hopefully,
what I'm aiming for should be a little easier to achieve, as we'll be
much less reliant on you being able to consistently juggle 5 clubs
in the same position 50 odd times (Which should help avoid that
odd little wobble some of the clubs in your pattern do in that clip ;-)

On 2005-01-20, Guy G wrote:
> LP: Have you considered using ordinary digital cameras as well? At
> least one would add an extra viewpoint and would require no extra work.
> In fact if you used a flash on it, it could be a useful control
> feature, making the editing easier.

The original plan which was discussed sometime around Bristol 2003
involved just stills cameras, but that plan suffers from the problems
involved in trying to get 20 people to press the shutter release
at the same time. Especially given the diferent shutter timings
on diferent makes of camera.

What I'm planning will greatly reduce that problem and gives us a
better chance of something reasonable. The point about using a flash
to mark the edit point is a nice one, we might play with that a bit.

I was planning to spot a juggler in shot, and go for a specific
catch point which might be slightly harder to spot during the edit
but should be less introusive in the end result.

>> PS. Didn't we come up with this idea for last year's BJC?

You might have done, I wasn't there (BJC's just aren't my thing
these days)

I remember talking to duncan hoyle about the stills camera
version outside moving finger at Bristol the year before last,
(iirc it started either from a 2 camera game of self timer
roulette or that video clip we made with barnesys camera of
nigel spinning me round by the ankles... if only I could
remember where that video was! :-) and I know it's been
mentioned on and off (often in top) since then.

I'm not claiming that I'm the first person to have ever thought
about this problem, but I'm not aware of anyone doing it at
a convention, with a collective of people, all doing their
bit with their own equipment without really knowing how the
end result will work... so i still think it would be an interesting
project!

-Paul

From:	Tobias Beckmann
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:55:06 +0100

Little Paul wrote:

> The original plan which was discussed sometime around Bristol 2003
> involved just stills cameras, but that plan suffers from the problems
> involved in trying to get 20 people to press the shutter release
> at the same time. Especially given the diferent shutter timings
> on diferent makes of camera.

These days, you ought to be able to find 20 video cameras at an ejc, or
at least 20 digicams with 320*240 15 fps video for a few seconds... have
them all shoot movies at the same time and synch them with a flash, then
you can go 1s from that flash and get pictures taken at the same time -
1/15th second is close enough

Using video clips from the cameras would also allow you to select the
exact moment of your bullet-time movie, or move the camera not only
through space but also through time (not possible with stills unless you
decide on the path in advance and want even more complicated synching)

--
Tobias Beckmann

From:	Little Paul
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:49:20 +0000 (UTC)

On 2005-01-21, Tobias Beckmann wrote:
> Little Paul wrote:
>
> These days, you ought to be able to find 20 video cameras at an ejc, or
> at least 20 digicams with 320*240 15 fps video for a few seconds... have
> them all shoot movies at the same time and synch them with a flash, then
> you can go 1s from that flash and get pictures taken at the same time -
> 1/15th second is close enough

Erm, did you not read the original post? That's pretty much exactly what
I'm going for ;-)

-Paul

From:	Tobias Beckmann
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:20:19 +0100

Little Paul wrote:
> On 2005-01-21, Tobias Beckmann wrote:
>
>>Little Paul wrote:
>>
>>These days, you ought to be able to find 20 video cameras at an ejc, or
>>at least 20 digicams with 320*240 15 fps video for a few seconds... have
>>them all shoot movies at the same time and synch them with a flash, then
>>you can go 1s from that flash and get pictures taken at the same time -
>>1/15th second is close enough
>
>
> Erm, did you not read the original post? That's pretty much exactly what
> I'm going for ;-)

Um yes i did, but that was yesterday *g*

I got so carried away with thinking about synching still cameras that i
forgot that they werent part of your original plan ;)

--
Tobias Beckmann, whos digital camera only shoots 3fps 3mp clips and who
isnt go to chocfest anyways... any other way i can help your project as
amends for not remembering how you started this thread? ;)

From:	jugglingeek
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	21 Jan 2005 17:50:01 GMT

I've seen a few people at conventions with laptop computers (namly The
Void with his nice looking
Apple Mac) why not have each camera operator import the video clip onto a
computer at the
convention. That way you won't have problems with people using different
compression softwear
before sending the file to you. you could burn all the clips
(uncompressed) onto one or more CDs and
then do the editing at home whenever you get the time. I would be happy to
bring a firewire cable and
some blank CDs. I don't have a laptop however.

----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----

From:	Duncan Hoyle
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 23:15:21 GMT

Little Paul wrote:

>
> I remember talking to duncan hoyle about the stills camera
> version outside moving finger at Bristol the year before last,
> (iirc it started either from a 2 camera game of self timer
> roulette or that video clip we made with barnesys camera of
> nigel spinning me round by the ankles... if only I could
> remember where that video was! :-) and I know it's been
> mentioned on and off (often in top) since then.
>

That sounds about right. That was the Bristol that I had the lens
splitter attachment on my SLR for taking stereo pair images. That's
possibly what got us talking about it. Not sure what happened to those
photos - they're lying around the house somewhere. They didn't come out
brilliantly but I'll see if I can dig them out before chocfest.

Duncan

From:	Tobias Beckmann
Subject:	Re: Chocfest video experiment workshop...
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:08:21 +0100

Luke Burrage wrote:
> Little Paul wrote:
>
>
>>For a while I've fancied attempting some form of distributed effort
>>to make a "bullet time" video sequence of a juggling convention. I
>>think it would be fun to try and freeze the action in the gym at a
>>convention and have the camera "fly-by" people juggling. I've worked
>>out how I think this can be achieved without needing any special
>>equipment - but I need some volunteers to help.

I once read about bullet-time clips done with 50 eos 300d... all firing
at once, arranged in a circle, allowing for a 2sec loop clip of the cam
rotating around whats inside the circle...

25 cameras in a gym might be possible... but synching them?

Very nice, but a bit expensive ;)

> I'm not sure if I've shared this video here before, but I once made a
> "bullet time" video of my 5 club juggling. I actually call it "budget
> time" because it was done with just one actor, one crew member (the same
> person as the actor), one camera and a lot of time. Take a look here
> (mirrorers welcome for this video):

http://knaeuel.stw-bonn.de/luke/clubtimesmall.mpg

nice idea, but the amount of camera positions is barely enough for the
effect ;)

--
Tobias