|
|
 | | From: | lizzard woman | | Subject: | Buckskin? | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:50:37 GMT |
|
|
 | http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/700387.html
--
love,
la mangosteena
"The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian
Religion" -- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, ratified by Congress
|
|
| | From: | cindi | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | 22 Jan 2005 20:55:43 -0800 |
|
|
| Yes.
|
|
| | From: | lizzard woman | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:42:59 GMT |
|
|
|
"cindi" wrote in message
news:1106456143.463023.24400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Yes.
And if that horse was listed as a bay, you would have jumped out of your
seat because it's obviously a buckskin, yes?
--
love,
la mangosteena
"The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian
Religion" -- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, ratified by Congress
"Religion did for bullshit, what Stonehenge did for rocks." -- The World
Famous Tink
|
|
| | From: | Laurel Reddick | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:05:07 GMT |
|
|
| On 22 Jan 2005 20:55:43 -0800, "cindi" wrote:
>Yes.
Hi Cindi. How can you tell that he is buckskin versus a bay? I mean
by looking a the photo only?? In the photo, he looks like my wonder
horse who is a bay.
Laurel
|
|
| | From: | cindi | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | 23 Jan 2005 01:53:11 -0800 |
|
|
| Well, I like science, and I took genetics in college and it was
interesting. I got into horse color genetics mostly because people
would say things like "My stallion is a sorrel tobiano and he doesn't
throw the tobiano that often because he has so much quarter horse in
his pedigree." And I'd think to myself, wait, my guess would be that
tobiano is a simple dominant/recessive gene, an on/off thing so to
speak, just based on other genes I know of that operate that way, and
it doesn't pass on more or less depending on how many horses in the
pedigree had it or didn't have it. If a particular horse has a
particular on/off gene, what gets passed on is a 50-50 chance, period.
And when something is actually definable one way or another, I like to
know it before I talk about it much. So I just did a bunch of reading
and talking and pedigree research and stuff. The main equine color
site that has members who are up on the most current research is
www.equinecolor.com. There is a lot of research on dog and cat coat
color genetics also, which is very interesting and good to read.
I got interested when I first bred to an "overo" stallion. The owner
told me about lethal white overo syndrome, so I looked it up, and I got
to be pretty sure her stallion had frame overo as well as sabino, and I
read a lot about lethal white overo syndrome, and in further
conversations with her it became clear that this woman - this "expert"
who owns and shows APHA horses somewhat successfully - did not even
know that the term "overo" is an umbrella term that includes three
different types of "overo" genes, and that only one of them is
associated with lethal whites... And since she was sort of a friend, I
got concerned that she was embarrassing herself, and I wanted to get
educated and then help her understand. But she proved to not care one
bit about horse coat color genetics - amazing to me since she breeds,
raises, trains, sells and stands stallions all whom are members of a
"color breed."
She currently trains and stands a stallion my family used to own. He
is heterozygous for black and heterozygous for tobiano. We were
talking about his upcoming foals due this year, and I was telling her
how most people think tobiano is linked with extension (base color),
and in this stallion's case, when he throws black, he also throws
tobiano, yet when he throws red, he throws his non-tobiano. A quick
overview of his get shows that every tobiano offspring but one is
black-based, and his two solid offspring are sorrel. The one sorrel
tobiano baby he has was out of a sorrel tobiano dam. So in that foal's
case, his tobiano came from his dam, not from the sire. So, this
means, for example, that my palomino mare who is in foal to him and is
due ANY day now will have one of the following color foals:
-palomino solid (got a red+cream from mom and red from dad and no
tobiano from dad)
-sorrel solid (red from mom and dad, no cream from mom, no tobiano from
dad)
-smoky black (red from mom, black and tobiano from dad)
and maybe, if the dam carries bay (it's possible but she's not been
tested and has only had a sorrel foal and a palomino foal so there is
no way to tell without testing), then we might also get:
-buckskin tobiano
-bay tobiano
But we won't get palomino tobiano, because if the dad throws his
tobiano, it comes along with his black, and then that would change a
palomino foal to a smoky black foal. So when people say "OH, wouldn't
you just love to get a palomino tobiano", I like to be able to know if
that's even a possibility before I gush about how cool it would be.
:-)
I should mention that it's not the color per se that fascinated me. I
would LOVE it if there was more that was known about horse genetics in
general, not just concerning color. But since color is something that
you can actually see, it's one of the things that's been most
researched. So it's not so much that I'm really into color. I'm into
genetics, and a lot of what's known about genetics in the horse is
color-related.
Anyway. Any pics of your guy?
cindi
|
|
| | From: | cindi | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | 22 Jan 2005 21:11:55 -0800 |
|
|
| Aw, I'm just guessing from what I've seen of horses who were actually
tested. He's a bit more tan than red, and my money is on buckskin.
Also I consider the source: I would certainly HOPE that a person asking
$15,000 for a horse they call a buckskin knows for sure he's a
buckskin. Does your horse have a parent who is any of the cream
dilutes, either palomino, buckskin, cremello, perlino, or a black out
of any of the cream dilutes? Have you had him tested? Maybe he's a
buckskin too. :-)
cindi
|
|
| | From: | lizzard woman | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:21:06 GMT |
|
|
|
"cindi" wrote in message
(snip)
| Also I consider the source: I would certainly HOPE that a person asking
| $15,000 for a horse they call a buckskin knows for sure he's a
| buckskin.
You're kidding, right?
--
love,
la mangosteena
"The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian
Religion" -- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, ratified by Congress
|
|
| | From: | Laurel Reddick | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:21:26 GMT |
|
|
| On 22 Jan 2005 21:11:55 -0800, "cindi" wrote:
>Aw, I'm just guessing from what I've seen of horses who were actually
>tested. He's a bit more tan than red, and my money is on buckskin.
>Also I consider the source: I would certainly HOPE that a person asking
>$15,000 for a horse they call a buckskin knows for sure he's a
>buckskin. Does your horse have a parent who is any of the cream
>dilutes, either palomino, buckskin, cremello, perlino, or a black out
>of any of the cream dilutes? Have you had him tested? Maybe he's a
>buckskin too. :-)
Concerning my guy. He is a registered paint/registered pinto. No
markings except a white splotch on the side of his face. How did you
get so interested and educated about horse genetics and colour?
Laurel
|
|
| | From: | cindi | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | 23 Jan 2005 01:10:28 -0800 |
|
|
| Aw, I'm just guessing from what I've seen of horses who were actually
tested. He's a bit more tan than red, and my money is on buckskin.
Also I consider the source: I would certainly HOPE that a person asking
$15,000 for a horse they call a buckskin knows for sure he's a
buckskin. Does your horse have a parent who is any of the cream
dilutes, either palomino, buckskin, cremello, perlino, or a black out
of any of the cream dilutes? Have you had him tested? Maybe he's a
buckskin too. :-)
cindi
|
|
| | From: | cindi | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | 23 Jan 2005 01:48:44 -0800 |
|
|
| Well, I like science, and I took genetics in college and it was
interesting. I got into horse color genetics mostly because people
would say things like "My stallion is a sorrel tobiano and he doesn't
throw the tobiano that often because he has so much quarter horse in
his pedigree." And I'd think to myself, wait, my guess would be that
tobiano is a simple dominant/recessive gene, an on/off thing so to
speak, just based on other genes I know of that operate that way, and
it doesn't pass on more or less depending on how many horses in the
pedigree had it or didn't have it. If a particular horse has a
particular on/off gene, what gets passed on is a 50-50 chance, period.
And when something is actually definable one way or another, I like to
know it before I talk about it much. So I just did a bunch of reading
and talking and pedigree research and stuff. The main equine color
site that has members who are up on the most current research is
www.equinecolor.com. There is a lot of research on dog and cat coat
color genetics also, which is very interesting and good to read.
I got interested when I first bred to an "overo" stallion. The owner
told me about lethal white overo syndrome, so I looked it up, and I got
to be pretty sure her stallion had frame overo as well as sabino, and I
read a lot about lethal white overo syndrome, and in further
conversations with her it became clear that this woman - this "expert"
who owns and shows APHA horses somewhat successfully - did not even
know that the term "overo" is an umbrella term that includes three
different types of "overo" genes, and that only one of them is
associated with lethal whites... And since she was sort of a friend, I
got concerned that she was embarrassing herself, and I wanted to get
educated and then help her understand. But she proved to not care one
bit about horse coat color genetics - amazing to me since she breeds,
raises, trains, sells and stands stallions all whom are members of a
"color breed."
She currently trains and stands a stallion my family used to own. He
is heterozygous for black and heterozygous for tobiano. We were
talking about his upcoming foals due this year, and I was telling her
how most people think tobiano is linked with extension (base color),
and in this stallion's case, when he throws black, he also throws
tobiano, yet when he throws red, he throws his non-tobiano. A quick
overview of his get shows that every tobiano offspring but one is
black-based, and his two solid offspring are sorrel. The one sorrel
tobiano baby he has was out of a sorrel tobiano dam. So in that foal's
case, his tobiano came from his dam, not from the sire. So, this
means, for example, that my palomino mare who is in foal to him and is
due ANY day now will have one of the following color foals:
-palomino solid (got a red+cream from mom and red from dad and no
tobiano from dad)
-sorrel solid (red from mom and dad, no cream from mom, no tobiano from
dad)
-smoky black (red from mom, black and tobiano from dad)
and maybe, if the dam carries bay (it's possible but she's not been
tested and has only had a sorrel foal and a palomino foal so there is
no way to tell without testing), then we might also get:
-buckskin tobiano
-bay tobiano
But we won't get palomino tobiano, because if the dad throws his
tobiano, it comes along with his black, and then that would change a
palomino foal to a smoky black foal. So when people say "OH, wouldn't
you just love to get a palomino tobiano", I like to be able to know if
that's even a possibility before I gush about how cool it would be.
:-)
I should mention that it's not the color per se that fascinated me. I
would LOVE it if there was more that was known about horse genetics in
general, not just concerning color. But since color is something that
you can actually see, it's one of the things that's been most
researched. So it's not so much that I'm really into color. I'm into
genetics, and a lot of what's known about genetics in the horse is
color-related.
Anyway. Any pics of your guy?
cindi
|
|
| | From: | jcdill at yahoo.com | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | 23 Jan 2005 01:18:48 -0800 |
|
|
| lizzard woman wrote:
>http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/700387.html
I don't think he's a buckskin, I think he's a light bay. It's hard to
describe *why* I think this is a bay and not a buckskin, but it's just
not a color I associate with horses known to have a dilute gene, and it
is a color I associate with horses that are known to NOT have a dilute
gene.
jc
|
|
| | From: | lizzard woman | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:59:53 GMT |
|
|
|
wrote in message
news:1106471928.489624.297140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| lizzard woman wrote:
|
| >http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/700387.html
|
| I don't think he's a buckskin, I think he's a light bay. It's hard to
| describe *why* I think this is a bay and not a buckskin, but it's just
| not a color I associate with horses known to have a dilute gene, and it
| is a color I associate with horses that are known to NOT have a dilute
| gene.
That's certainly my impression. If I had to bet money it would be on bay.
--
love,
la mangosteena
"The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian
Religion" -- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, ratified by Congress
"Religion did for bullshit, what Stonehenge did for rocks." -- The World
Famous Tink
|
|
| | From: | cindi | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | 23 Jan 2005 12:56:01 -0800 |
|
|
| Not necessarily, because what I would assume has already happened is
that the owners have said wow, he looks pretty buckskinny, but he
doesn't have a cream parent, so he must just be a really tan looking
bay.
|
|
| | From: | cindi | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | 23 Jan 2005 00:19:42 -0800 |
|
|
| Aw, I'm just guessing from what I've seen of horses who were actually
tested. He's a bit more tan than red, and my money is on buckskin.
Also I consider the source: I would certainly HOPE that a person asking
$15,000 for a horse they call a buckskin knows for sure he's a
buckskin. Does your horse have a parent who is any of the cream
dilutes, either palomino, buckskin, cremello, perlino, or a black out
of any of the cream dilutes? Have you had him tested? Maybe he's a
buckskin too. :-)
cindi
|
|
| | From: | cindi | | Subject: | Re: Buckskin? | | Date: | 23 Jan 2005 08:46:26 -0800 |
|
|
| This:
-smoky black (red from mom, black and tobiano from dad)
should have said:
-smoky black tobiano (red+cream from mom, black and tobiano from dad)
And when I made that line space between the two paragraphs, I cut out
this:
-black tobiano (red from mom, black and tobiano from dad)
|
|
|
