When movies, especially Quicktime, are embedded, Opera ignores plugin
settings. I have plugger installed and configured, but also have
video/quicktime and video/x-quicktime set to "show download dialogue".
I had partial success with 7.54 with opera popping up asking me what to
do (download, or use the plugin via use opera), but in the Beta Opera
seems to not be doing this.

Am I doing something wrong? I just want the option to download embedded
movies in case the plugin plogram wont cooperate (quicktime is
notorious on my system, I often have to switch programs and tweak
settings to have it play correctly). If "show download dialogue with
the plugin also set isnt the right option, please add one to make it
easy.

Thanks

Tbt.

From:	tbt
Subject:	Re: Embedded files and Opera8.0B1
Date:	12 Jan 2005 09:08:50 -0800

Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen wrote:
------ snip --------

> But there's a catch: if the quicktime is embedded in html, then you
> haven't really asked for that file. Instead, the page has requested
> to render that data inline. When opera tries to render it, it has
the
> choice between doing the job itself, or using a plug-in. These are
> the only ways to render something inline. So for inline rendering,
> the setting for file types is ignored, but the setting for plug-in is
> used. If opera can't render the data on it's own and there's no
> plug-in set in file types, the file will be ignored.
>
> This is the way opera has behaved for a long time (at least back in
> version 6, most likely as long as we've had plug-in support). I
> figured this out when I tried to disable a plug-in by setting the
file
> type to "ask", and opera still used the plug-in.
>
>

If Opera can pass the URL for the embedded file to a plugin, it should
be possible to have Opera pass that url to the user and allow them to
do with is as they want, either allow the plugin to take over, ignore
it, download it, or copy it to the clipboard. The current behaviour has
been a major sticking point for Opera for as long as I have used linux.

> To reiterate the main point: The setting for "file type" is only
> relevant for data that the user explicitly asks for.
>

I dont think this is the case. for some embedded files, I do get the
download/open box. PDF and some other movie embeds would be good
examples of this. I dont like embedding PDF files in linux, so I have
it set to ask to download. Opera allows me to do this. If this is a
bug, then it needs to be corrected, otherwise plugins are being
partially crippled in Opera.

>
> eirik

Tbt.

From:	tbt
Subject:	Re: Embedded files and Opera8.0B1
Date:	12 Jan 2005 09:07:08 -0800

From:	Tullio Chersi
Subject:	Re: Embedded files and Opera8.0B1
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:59:16 +0100

tbt wrote:
> When movies, especially Quicktime, are embedded, Opera ignores plugin
> settings. I have plugger installed and configured, but also have
> video/quicktime and video/x-quicktime set to "show download dialogue".
> I had partial success with 7.54 with opera popping up asking me what to
> do (download, or use the plugin via use opera), but in the Beta Opera
> seems to not be doing this.
>
> Am I doing something wrong? I just want the option to download embedded
> movies in case the plugin plogram wont cooperate (quicktime is
> notorious on my system, I often have to switch programs and tweak
> settings to have it play correctly). If "show download dialogue with
> the plugin also set isnt the right option, please add one to make it
> easy.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tbt.
>
Bur are you using Linux? I have the Mplayer2.70 plugin compiled by me
which is recognized by Mozilla and Firefox and allows me to see both
Quicktime streams (most times) and Windows Media streams (always) yet
Opera seems to ignore it on my SuSE Linux 9.1 and uses instead the
Kaffeine plugin (sometimes). It is the only Mozilla plugin Opera ignores.
Tullio

From:	Christian Kirbach
Subject:	Re: Embedded files and Opera8.0B1
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:55:31 +0100

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:59:16 +0100, Tullio Chersi
wrote:

> Bur are you using Linux? I have the Mplayer2.70 plugin compiled by me
> which is recognized by Mozilla and Firefox and allows me to see both

> Kaffeine plugin (sometimes). It is the only Mozilla plugin Opera ignores.
I am successful with mozplugger. It uses MPlayer.
Opera 7.54
Debian Linux

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

From:	Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen
Subject:	Re: Embedded files and Opera8.0B1
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 09:01:24 +0100

"tbt" writes:

> When movies, especially Quicktime, are embedded, Opera ignores plugin
> settings. I have plugger installed and configured, but also have
> video/quicktime and video/x-quicktime set to "show download dialogue".
> I had partial success with 7.54 with opera popping up asking me what to
> do (download, or use the plugin via use opera), but in the Beta Opera
> seems to not be doing this.
>
> Am I doing something wrong? I just want the option to download embedded
> movies in case the plugin plogram wont cooperate (quicktime is
> notorious on my system, I often have to switch programs and tweak
> settings to have it play correctly). If "show download dialogue with
> the plugin also set isnt the right option, please add one to make it
> easy.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tbt.

I don't think there's any way of doing this. You see, when you go to
a url, opera will start downloading the url and then figure out what
kind of data it is. Then it will look at the settings for that type
of data and act accordingly. So if the url you've asked for is a
quicktime, opera will show the download dialog.

But there's a catch: if the quicktime is embedded in html, then you
haven't really asked for that file. Instead, the page has requested
to render that data inline. When opera tries to render it, it has the
choice between doing the job itself, or using a plug-in. These are
the only ways to render something inline. So for inline rendering,
the setting for file types is ignored, but the setting for plug-in is
used. If opera can't render the data on it's own and there's no
plug-in set in file types, the file will be ignored.

This is the way opera has behaved for a long time (at least back in
version 6, most likely as long as we've had plug-in support). I
figured this out when I tried to disable a plug-in by setting the file
type to "ask", and opera still used the plug-in.

To reiterate the main point: The setting for "file type" is only
relevant for data that the user explicitly asks for.

eirik

From:	Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen
Subject:	Re: Embedded files and Opera8.0B1
Date:	Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:12:19 +0100

tbt writes:

> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:10:29 +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Opera could have asked the user what to do, but it doesn't want to.
>> The reason, as I said, is that the user never asked to see the
>> embedded file. The user asked to see an HTML page.
>>
>> The point is that when an HTML file uses an

to show embedded
>> content, the question "what do you want me to do with this data" has
>> already been answered. The HTML document has already said "show this
>> data inline in the HTML page".
>
> --------- snip ---------
>
>>
>>
>> eirik
>
>
> Opera has a history of _ignoring_ what authors want the page to
> do. From disabling images, to ignoring css, javascript, popups, link
> style, and formatting pages to fit on small screens, ignoring what is
> on the page is what makes Opera such a great product.
>
> I'm not asking for this to be standard behaviour, but avaliable to
> those who want to enable it.
>
> Perhaps a [ ] Ignore embedding option for each type would be a good
> compromize.
>
>

Valid point, although I can see some issues with making it useful.

File an "enhancement" request at http://bugs.opera.com/wizard/
Mark the report with "severity" set to "enhancement".
Make sure to clearly explain which problem you wish to have solved.

eirik

From:	tbt
Subject:	Re: Embedded files and Opera8.0B1
Date:	Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:54:17 -0700

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:12:19 +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen
wrote:

>
> Valid point, although I can see some issues with making it useful.
>
> File an "enhancement" request at http://bugs.opera.com/wizard/
> Mark the report with "severity" set to "enhancement".
> Make sure to clearly explain which problem you wish to have solved.
>
>
> eirik

Filed, bug # 161385

When a page author embeds files, especially quicktime movie files, Opera
will ignore its plugin settings. On my Linux Mandrake 10.1 machine, I have
Mozplugger installed and working correctly with Opera. However, Quicktime
has the unfortunate ability to be terribly inconsistant with what program
is needed to play it correctly, and therefore often fails to correctly
play the quicktime file.

As this is the case, I would rather download the file and run it manually.
However, When I set the quicktime file settings to "show download dialog",
Opera ignores my wishes and loads the plugin without my consent. For file
types where you have no plugin installed, Opera will download the embedded
file and not display it.

What I would like Opera to do instead is to allow me to either download,
ignore, or run the specified plugin for file types I have set to "show
download dialog". An option to ignore embedding on a per filetype basis
would also be halpful, however allowing the download dialogue option would
be more flexable.

Although I am using Opera for Linux, this behaviour was also present in
Opera years ago when I used Opera in Windows.

1. Have a plugin installed that handles quicktime movies
2. Go to the file types in Opera's settings and set the video/quicktime
settings to "display download dialogue"
3. Go to http://fredrik.hubbe.net/plugger/menu.html?f=test.mov
4. Observe that Opera has ignored your wishes and used the plugin to
display the movie.

Tbt.

--
http://www.lp.org/ <-------- Click if you hate taxes.

From:	Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen
Subject:	Re: Embedded files and Opera8.0B1
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:10:29 +0100

"tbt" writes:

> Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen wrote:
> ------ snip --------
>
>
>> But there's a catch: if the quicktime is embedded in html, then you
>> haven't really asked for that file. Instead, the page has requested
>> to render that data inline. When opera tries to render it, it has
> the
>> choice between doing the job itself, or using a plug-in. These are
>> the only ways to render something inline. So for inline rendering,
>> the setting for file types is ignored, but the setting for plug-in is
>> used. If opera can't render the data on it's own and there's no
>> plug-in set in file types, the file will be ignored.
>>
>> This is the way opera has behaved for a long time (at least back in
>> version 6, most likely as long as we've had plug-in support). I
>> figured this out when I tried to disable a plug-in by setting the
> file
>> type to "ask", and opera still used the plug-in.
>>
>>
>
> If Opera can pass the URL for the embedded file to a plugin, it should
> be possible to have Opera pass that url to the user and allow them to
> do with is as they want, either allow the plugin to take over, ignore
> it, download it, or copy it to the clipboard. The current behaviour has
> been a major sticking point for Opera for as long as I have used linux.
>

Opera could have asked the user what to do, but it doesn't want to.
The reason, as I said, is that the user never asked to see the
embedded file. The user asked to see an HTML page.

The point is that when an HTML file uses an

to show embedded
content, the question "what do you want me to do with this data" has
already been answered. The HTML document has already said "show this
data inline in the HTML page".

When you go directly to the file, you have told the browser "go get
this file for me" and then the browser needs to ask "what do you want
me to do with this data". At this point it will look at the file
type's setting.

>> To reiterate the main point: The setting for "file type" is only
>> relevant for data that the user explicitly asks for.
>>
>
> I dont think this is the case. for some embedded files, I do get the
> download/open box. PDF and some other movie embeds would be good
> examples of this. I dont like embedding PDF files in linux, so I have
> it set to ask to download. Opera allows me to do this. If this is a
> bug, then it needs to be corrected, otherwise plugins are being
> partially crippled in Opera.
>

This will only happen if you go directly to a file, not if it is
embedded in an HTML page. I have never (except in test cases I've
made myself) seen a PDF as an embedded file. PDF files are always
linked to directly.

In other words, this:

will not ask you what you want to do with the pdf, while following the
link on this page:

example.pdf

will ask (if you have set preferences to ask).

eirik

From:	tbt
Subject:	Re: Embedded files and Opera8.0B1
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:45:53 -0700

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:10:29 +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen
wrote:

>
> Opera could have asked the user what to do, but it doesn't want to.
> The reason, as I said, is that the user never asked to see the
> embedded file. The user asked to see an HTML page.
>
> The point is that when an HTML file uses an

to show embedded
> content, the question "what do you want me to do with this data" has
> already been answered. The HTML document has already said "show this
> data inline in the HTML page".

--------- snip ---------

>
>
> eirik

Opera has a history of _ignoring_ what authors want the page to do. From
disabling images, to ignoring css, javascript, popups, link style, and
formatting pages to fit on small screens, ignoring what is on the page is
what makes Opera such a great product.

I'm not asking for this to be standard behaviour, but avaliable to those
who want to enable it.

Perhaps a [ ] Ignore embedding option for each type would be a good
compromize.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/