Hi there,

This is something that started with 7.60p4 but since goes on with the
brand new 8b1 (btw, everything else goes just great) I am asking for this
version.

Everytime I open Opera I cannot use any plugin: they just don't work.
So I go to Preferences-->Plugins and see that there are a dozen of
different paths Opera searches for (from /usr/lib/opera/plugins to an old
/opt/netscape/plugins I have!).

At this point I have several duplicates of the plugins in the list.

If I remove all the unwanted paths the plugins get in a reasonable number
(i.e. one per type), but still don't work.

When I close and restart Opera, the massive list is back there and I am
back to start.

Any idea on how to solve this?

Fedora Core 3, Qt 3.3, latest Flash, j2sdk 1.4.2, Opera 8b1.
If you need other info or output please ask. Thanks!

--
On Oct 5 1991, 8.53 AM; Linus Benedict Torvalds said:
>I can (well, almost) hear you asking yourselves "why?". Hurd will be
>out in a year (or two, or next month, who knows), and I've already got
>minix.

From:	Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 12:29:52 +0100

Jack Malmostoso writes:

> Hi there,
>
> This is something that started with 7.60p4 but since goes on with the
> brand new 8b1 (btw, everything else goes just great) I am asking for this
> version.
>
> Everytime I open Opera I cannot use any plugin: they just don't work.
> So I go to Preferences-->Plugins and see that there are a dozen of
> different paths Opera searches for (from /usr/lib/opera/plugins to an old
> /opt/netscape/plugins I have!).
>
> At this point I have several duplicates of the plugins in the list.
>
> If I remove all the unwanted paths the plugins get in a reasonable number
> (i.e. one per type), but still don't work.
>
> When I close and restart Opera, the massive list is back there and I am
> back to start.
>
> Any idea on how to solve this?
>
> Fedora Core 3, Qt 3.3, latest Flash, j2sdk 1.4.2, Opera 8b1.
> If you need other info or output please ask. Thanks!
>
>

Output from --debugplugin?

Maybe also try with a --personaldir to see if there's anything in your
settings that trips up opera?

eirik

From:	Jack Malmostoso
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 12:47:24 +0100

Ciao Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen, nel tuo messaggio dicevi:

[jack@coppermine ~]$ opera --debugplugin
opera: [plugin WARNING] Plugins have been disabled in Opera preferences

But believe me or not, I have never disabled them.
Sorry for making you waste time, and thanks for your help!

--
On Oct 5 1991, 8.53 AM; Linus Benedict Torvalds said:
>I can (well, almost) hear you asking yourselves "why?". Hurd will be
>out in a year (or two, or next month, who knows), and I've already got
>minix.

From:	Paul McGarry
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:55:56 +1100

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 12:47:24 +0100, Jack Malmostoso
wrote:

> [jack@coppermine ~]$ opera --debugplugin
> opera: [plugin WARNING] Plugins have been disabled in Opera preferences
>
> But believe me or not, I have never disabled them.
> Sorry for making you waste time, and thanks for your help!

It's probably not a complete time waste....

about:plugins should _really_ say if plugins are disabled.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

From:	Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:37:12 +0100

"Paul McGarry" writes:

> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 12:47:24 +0100, Jack Malmostoso
> wrote:
>
>> [jack@coppermine ~]$ opera --debugplugin
>> opera: [plugin WARNING] Plugins have been disabled in Opera preferences
>>
>> But believe me or not, I have never disabled them.
>> Sorry for making you waste time, and thanks for your help!
>
> It's probably not a complete time waste....
>
> about:plugins should _really_ say if plugins are disabled.
>

Not a waste at all. It didn't take me much time and it's important
that we get to know about the problems our users see. Of course, if
you really didn't (accidentally) turn off plug-ins, it's a plain bug.
But maybe you've hit a shortcut key by accident that turned off
plug-ins? I know I regularly start typing only to find that the focus
was not in an edit field, and I have no idea what opera may have done
as a result.

Personally I think it is wrong to have shortcuts on "ordinary" keys,
since it is too easy to make stupid mistakes without even realizing
it. I realize that for some people, it's a very good thing, but it
should probably be a single-entry preference to turn it off (or on).

(Espen remarks that he doesn't think there are any simple keyboard
shortcuts to turn off plug-ins, but that it's easy enough to hit the
wrong setting in the F12 menu...)

eirik

From:	Yurk Yurk
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:23:47 +1000

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:37:12 +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen said
something like this:

> Personally I think it is wrong to have shortcuts on "ordinary" keys, since
> it is too easy to make stupid mistakes without even realizing it. I
> realize that for some people, it's a very good thing, but it should
> probably be a single-entry preference to turn it off (or on).

This is something that has bugged me for ages. I used to have a user name
beginning with 'g' on a certain site. I would start typing without
realising the box did not have focus and the graphics would disappear.
This would really throw a newbie.

I believe that shortcuts on ordinary keys is a very bad decision. It's not
so bad for advanced users, but it's one of the reasons why Opera is not
particularly user-friendly for every day folk.

From:	Espen Sand
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 09:03:39 +0100

Yurk Yurk wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:37:12 +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen said
> something like this:
>
>
>>Personally I think it is wrong to have shortcuts on "ordinary" keys, since
>>it is too easy to make stupid mistakes without even realizing it. I
>>realize that for some people, it's a very good thing, but it should
>>probably be a single-entry preference to turn it off (or on).
>
>
> This is something that has bugged me for ages. I used to have a user name
> beginning with 'g' on a certain site. I would start typing without
> realising the box did not have focus and the graphics would disappear.
> This would really throw a newbie.
>
> I believe that shortcuts on ordinary keys is a very bad decision. It's not
> so bad for advanced users, but it's one of the reasons why Opera is not
> particularly user-friendly for every day folk.

It should not be much work for you to go through the standard_keyboard.ini file
(or rather a copy of it) and remove the single key shortcuts. Opera has always
had a lot of shortcuts and we are careful when changing some of them. At least
in the default version. But a simplified and modified keyboard set is simple
to achieve.

--
Espen Sand
espen@opera.com

From:	Jack Malmostoso
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 15:48:01 +0100

Ciao Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen, nel tuo messaggio dicevi:

> Of course, if
> you really didn't (accidentally) turn off plug-ins, it's a plain bug.
> But maybe you've hit a shortcut key by accident that turned off
> plug-ins?

I recall that it happened to me before, but checking if the plugins were
enabled has been my forst thought. This time didn't even come close to my
head :)

I am sure not to have done it consciously, so I would consider that a bug.
If someone else can confirm this happening, I could file it.

Thanks for the support!

--
On Oct 5 1991, 8.53 AM; Linus Benedict Torvalds said:
>I can (well, almost) hear you asking yourselves "why?". Hurd will be
>out in a year (or two, or next month, who knows), and I've already got
>minix.

From:	Robt. W. Fletcher Jr
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:53:19 -0800

Yurk Yurk writes:

> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:37:12 +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen said
> something like this:
>
>> Personally I think it is wrong to have shortcuts on "ordinary"
>> keys, since it is too easy to make stupid mistakes without even
>> realizing it. I realize that for some people, it's a very good
>> thing, but it should probably be a single-entry preference to turn
>> it off (or on).
>
> This is something that has bugged me for ages. I used to have a user
> name beginning with 'g' on a certain site. I would start typing
> without realising the box did not have focus and the graphics would
> disappear. This would really throw a newbie.
>
> I believe that shortcuts on ordinary keys is a very bad
> decision. It's not so bad for advanced users, but it's one of the
> reasons why Opera is not particularly user-friendly for every day
> folk.

Hmmmm? You can change the keys to be anything you want.

I myself like the z and x sequences, but then I'm an emacs user so
key sequences aren't a problem.

Different strokes for different folks.

--
-rwf

From:	Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 09:25:03 +0100

"Robt. W. Fletcher Jr" writes:

> Yurk Yurk writes:
>
>> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:37:12 +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen said
>> something like this:
>>
>>> Personally I think it is wrong to have shortcuts on "ordinary"
>>> keys, since it is too easy to make stupid mistakes without even
>>> realizing it. I realize that for some people, it's a very good
>>> thing, but it should probably be a single-entry preference to turn
>>> it off (or on).
>>
>> This is something that has bugged me for ages. I used to have a user
>> name beginning with 'g' on a certain site. I would start typing
>> without realising the box did not have focus and the graphics would
>> disappear. This would really throw a newbie.
>>
>> I believe that shortcuts on ordinary keys is a very bad
>> decision. It's not so bad for advanced users, but it's one of the
>> reasons why Opera is not particularly user-friendly for every day
>> folk.
>
> Hmmmm? You can change the keys to be anything you want.
>

The problem is that the default should be the one with the least
surprises. The one that is the current default should be easily
available but it should not be the default.

eirik

From:	Rijk van Geijtenbeek
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:24:20 +0100

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 09:25:03 +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen wrote:
>>> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:37:12 +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen said
>>> something like this:

>>>> Personally I think it is wrong to have shortcuts on "ordinary"
>>>> keys, since it is too easy to make stupid mistakes without even
>>>> realizing it. I realize that for some people, it's a very good
>>>> thing, but it should probably be a single-entry preference to turn
>>>> it off (or on).

> The problem is that the default should be the one with the least
> surprises. The one that is the current default should be easily
> available but it should not be the default.

It would be something that *many* long time Opera users will have to
change then after (re)installing Opera. I'd like to keep that list as
short as possible. And while I agree in principle, I've heard remarkably
few complaints about this. Maybe people not into shortcuts keep their hand
of the keyboard when browsing, so they never experience the problem.

Personally I've got more problems the other way around, with sites that
automatically focus a search field on loading a page and so eating my
shortcuts. Something that doesn't have bad consequences, it's just a
little bit annoying.

--
The Web is a procrastination apparatus: | Rijk van Geijtenbeek
It can absorb as much time as | Documentation & QA
is required to ensure that you | Opera Software ASA
won't get any real work done. - J.Nielsen
|http://my.opera.com/Rijk/journal

From:	Jack Malmostoso
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:46:40 +0100

Ciao Rijk van Geijtenbeek, nel tuo messaggio dicevi:

> Something that doesn't have bad consequences, it's just a
> little bit annoying.

I guess you cannot have them all happy, can you?
Maybe something like the "mouse gestures" dialog that appears the first
time you use a shortcut could help deciding whether use them or not.
Just a thought.

--
On Oct 5 1991, 8.53 AM; Linus Benedict Torvalds said:
>I can (well, almost) hear you asking yourselves "why?". Hurd will be
>out in a year (or two, or next month, who knows), and I've already got
>minix.

From:	Rijk van Geijtenbeek
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:12:10 +0100

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:46:40 +0100, Jack Malmostoso wrote:

> Ciao Rijk van Geijtenbeek, nel tuo messaggio dicevi:
>
>> Something that doesn't have bad consequences, it's just a
>> little bit annoying.
>
> I guess you cannot have them all happy, can you?
> Maybe something like the "mouse gestures" dialog that appears the first
> time you use a shortcut could help deciding whether use them or not.
> Just a thought.

Nice thought. Might be good UI if we indeed found this to be a problem.

Talking about good UI: in Opera 8, the middle-click settings now default
to 'Open link in background' even if you press Escape on the question
'Want to configure now?' before the settings dialog shows up. The
mid-clicked link will open in the background. IMHO, we could remove the
first-time-midclick question completely, it isn't that hard to find this
in the prefs, and less likely to be triggered by accident as with mouse
gestures.

--
The Web is a procrastination apparatus: | Rijk van Geijtenbeek
It can absorb as much time as | Documentation & QA
is required to ensure that you | Opera Software ASA
won't get any real work done. - J.Nielsen
|http://my.opera.com/Rijk/journal

From:	Robt. W. Fletcher Jr
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:12:04 -0800

"Rijk van Geijtenbeek" writes:

> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:46:40 +0100, Jack Malmostoso wrote:
>
>> Ciao Rijk van Geijtenbeek, nel tuo messaggio dicevi:
>>
>>> Something that doesn't have bad consequences, it's just a
>>> little bit annoying.
>>
>> I guess you cannot have them all happy, can you?
>> Maybe something like the "mouse gestures" dialog that appears the first
>> time you use a shortcut could help deciding whether use them or not.
>> Just a thought.
>
[snip]
> IMHO, we could remove the first-time-midclick question completely,
> it isn't that hard to find this in the prefs, and less likely to be
> triggered by accident as with mouse gestures.

Where did you find in the prefs ?

is the only way I know how I to change the action, which
isn't real oblivious to first time users (IMO).

--
-rwf

From:	Steven V. Gunhouse
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Sat, 08 Jan 2005 07:03:23 GMT

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:12:04 -0800, Robt. W. Fletcher Jr wrote:

> "Rijk van Geijtenbeek" writes:
>
>> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:46:40 +0100, Jack Malmostoso wrote:
>>
>>> Ciao Rijk van Geijtenbeek, nel tuo messaggio dicevi:
>>>
>>>> Something that doesn't have bad consequences, it's just a
>>>> little bit annoying.
>>>
>>> I guess you cannot have them all happy, can you?
>>> Maybe something like the "mouse gestures" dialog that appears the first
>>> time you use a shortcut could help deciding whether use them or not.
>>> Just a thought.
>>
> [snip]
>> IMHO, we could remove the first-time-midclick question completely,
>> it isn't that hard to find this in the prefs, and less likely to be
>> triggered by accident as with mouse gestures.
>
> Where did you find in the prefs ?
>
> is the only way I know how I to change the action, which
> isn't real oblivious to first time users (IMO).
>

Preferences, Mouse and keyboard, Middle-click options of course. Same as
in Windows.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

From:	Rijk van Geijtenbeek
Subject:	Re: [8b1] Plugin rage
Date:	Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:20:32 +0100

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 07:03:23 GMT, Steven V. Gunhouse wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:12:04 -0800, Robt. W. Fletcher Jr wrote:
>> "Rijk van Geijtenbeek" writes:

...

>> [snip]
>>> IMHO, we could remove the first-time-midclick question completely,
>>> it isn't that hard to find this in the prefs, and less likely to be
>>> triggered by accident as with mouse gestures.
>>
>> Where did you find in the prefs ?
>>
>> is the only way I know how I to change the action, which
>> isn't real oblivious to first time users (IMO).

> Preferences, Mouse and keyboard, Middle-click options of course. Same as
> in Windows.

Under Linux, you have two choices to make, under Windows only one
(mid-click on links). I especially think the default is good enough for
Windows.

--
The Web is a procrastination apparatus: | Rijk van Geijtenbeek
It can absorb as much time as | Documentation & QA
is required to ensure that you | Opera Software ASA
won't get any real work done. - J.Nielsen
|http://my.opera.com/Rijk/journal