Tried to go here:
http://www.migros-shop.ch/
even with Opera8 set to identify as IE they don't like me.
Well I don't like them either.
On Opera's side, the masquerade could be more devious.
On Migros' side, they need to be told they are a bunch of LAZY AMATEURS.
--
Fritz

From:	Steven V. Gunhouse
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:29:45 GMT

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:13:38 -0800, Fritz Oppliger
wrote:

>
> Tried to go here:
> http://www.migros-shop.ch/
> even with Opera8 set to identify as IE they don't like me.
> Well I don't like them either.
> On Opera's side, the masquerade could be more devious.
> On Migros' side, they need to be told they are a bunch of LAZY AMATEURS.

Looks like it would work if they just fixed their browser detection
script. I edited their js in my cache to convice them that Opera 7+ was IE
5+, and it looks like stuff works. But their (original) script doesn't
even know about Opera 7, it only looks for 4, 5 and 6.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

From:	tbt
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:15:40 -0700

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:13:38 -0800, Fritz Oppliger
wrote:

>
> Tried to go here:
> http://www.migros-shop.ch/
> even with Opera8 set to identify as IE they don't like me.
> Well I don't like them either.
> On Opera's side, the masquerade could be more devious.

Unforunately, Operas developers wont let you set a useragent, and all of
their useragent strings have Opera in them. So any evil webmaster can just
search for "opera" (Microsoft comes to mind) and fool around or block
opera outright.

Tbt.

--
http://www.lp.org/ <-------- Click if you hate taxes.

From:	Fritz Oppliger
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:19:02 -0800

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:15:40 -0700, tbt wrote:

>> http://www.migros-shop.ch/
>> On Opera's side, the masquerade could be more devious.
>
> Unforunately, Operas developers wont let you set a useragent, and all of
> their useragent strings have Opera in them. So any evil webmaster can
> just search for "opera" (Microsoft comes to mind) and fool around or
> block opera outright.
>
Is this what is happening here?
Where are these strings kept?

--
Fritz

From:	Richard Grevers
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:36:44 +1300

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:19:02 -0800, Fritz Oppliger
wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:15:40 -0700, tbt wrote:
>
>>> http://www.migros-shop.ch/
>>> On Opera's side, the masquerade could be more devious.
>>
>> Unforunately, Operas developers wont let you set a useragent, and all
>> of their useragent strings have Opera in them. So any evil webmaster
>> can just search for "opera" (Microsoft comes to mind) and fool around
>> or block opera outright.
>>
> Is this what is happening here?
> Where are these strings kept?
>
They are assembled in the browser core, so you can't change anything
sufficiently useful by editing a language file. The easiest way to hide
Opera completely is to use Proxomitron or similar.
Are this store's products unique? The best approach might be to buy from
their competitors then inform the webmaster the value of the sales they
lost. Better still, inform the management.

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

From:	Steve Pugh
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:31:59 +0000

"Fritz Oppliger" wrote:

>Tried to go here:
>http://www.migros-shop.ch/
>even with Opera8 set to identify as IE they don't like me.
>Well I don't like them either.
>On Opera's side, the masquerade could be more devious.

The browser detection JavaScript at
http://www.migros-shop.ch/javascript/BrowserOSDetectV6.js

They specifically detect Opera (but only check for versions up to 6,
so maybe the site would work with 7 or 8 but they haven't updated the
sniffer). Even when spoofing as IE Opera is still identifiable as
Opera.

Opera's spoofing is designed to work around clumsy sites that assume
that anything that isn't IE or Mozilla is some stone age relic, it is
not designed to get past all browser detection because there are (a
few) things that Opera genuinely can not do.

You can bypass the browser detection and go straight to
http://www.le-shop.ch/cgi-bin/leshop/de/Willkommen.jsp
Maybe the site will work with Opera, maybe it won't.

>On Migros' side, they need to be told they are a bunch of LAZY AMATEURS.

True - users with JS disabled get a blank screen.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh

From:	Rijk van Geijtenbeek
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:25:22 +0100

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:31:59 +0000, Steve Pugh wrote:
> "Fritz Oppliger" wrote:

>> On Migros' side, they need to be told they are a bunch of LAZY AMATEURS.
>
> True - users with JS disabled get a blank screen.

Still, if you wish your communication with webmasters to result in an improvement of the site, it is best to stay polite. Firm but polite :)

--
The Web is a procrastination apparatus: | Rijk van Geijtenbeek
It can absorb as much time as | Documentation & QA
is required to ensure that you | Opera Software ASA
won't get any real work done. - J.Nielsen |http://my.opera.com/Rijk/journal
!

From:	Peter Burkhard
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:36:18 +0100

Rijk van Geijtenbeek schrieb am Thu, 20 Jan
2005 20:25:22 +0100:

> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:31:59 +0000, Steve Pugh wrote:
>> "Fritz Oppliger" wrote:
>
>>> On Migros' side, they need to be told they are a bunch of LAZY
>>> AMATEURS.
>>
>> True - users with JS disabled get a blank screen.
>
> Still, if you wish your communication with webmasters to result in an
> improvement of the site, it is best to stay polite. Firm but polite :)
>

I had a discussion for long time with the webmaster and he is not willing
to change anything.

Peter

--
Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem eMail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/m2/

From:	Steven V. Gunhouse
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:53:28 GMT

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:36:18 +0100, Peter Burkhard
wrote:

> Rijk van Geijtenbeek schrieb am Thu, 20 Jan
> 2005 20:25:22 +0100:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:31:59 +0000, Steve Pugh wrote:
>>> "Fritz Oppliger" wrote:
>>
>>>> On Migros' side, they need to be told they are a bunch of LAZY
>>>> AMATEURS.
>>>
>>> True - users with JS disabled get a blank screen.
>>
>> Still, if you wish your communication with webmasters to result in an
>> improvement of the site, it is best to stay polite. Firm but polite :)
>>
>
> I had a discussion for long time with the webmaster and he is not
> willing to change anything.

What exactly needs to be changed? As I said yesterday, if you actually
fake IE by modifying their script, it looks fine.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

From:	Phillip Jones
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:01:24 -0500

Steven V. Gunhouse wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:36:18 +0100, Peter Burkhard
> wrote:
>
>> Rijk van Geijtenbeek schrieb am Thu, 20
>> Jan 2005 20:25:22 +0100:
>>
>>> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:31:59 +0000, Steve Pugh wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Fritz Oppliger" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On Migros' side, they need to be told they are a bunch of LAZY
>>>>> AMATEURS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> True - users with JS disabled get a blank screen.
>>>
>>>
>>> Still, if you wish your communication with webmasters to result in
>>> an improvement of the site, it is best to stay polite. Firm but
>>> polite :)
>>>
>>
>> I had a discussion for long time with the webmaster and he is not
>> willing to change anything.
>
>
> What exactly needs to be changed? As I said yesterday, if you actually
> fake IE by modifying their script, it looks fine.
>

Maybe you can get the developer of UserAgent Switcher extension for
Mozilla products to create such an extension for Opera. Now I know why
your User Agent Switcher doesn't work.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |pjones@kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:pjones@kimbanet.com

From:	Fritz Oppliger
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:49:12 -0800

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:53:28 GMT, Steven V. Gunhouse
wrote:

-x
>>>
>>> Still, if you wish your communication with webmasters to result in an
>>> improvement of the site, it is best to stay polite. Firm but polite :)
>>>
>>
>> I had a discussion for long time with the webmaster and he is not
>> willing to change anything.
>
> What exactly needs to be changed? As I said yesterday, if you actually
> fake IE by modifying their script, it looks fine.
>
I had a look at the script but am too much of an utter JSnovice to know
what needs to be changed & how to apply it.
Possibly when you get to the checkout it applies a negative total?
wouldn't that be nice.
I got email back from them saying without details that there are
problems...:

quote
Sehr geehrter Herr

Vielen Dank für Ihr E-Mail.

Die Navigation auf unserer Website gestaltet mit Safari und Opera läuft in
der Tat nicht problemlos. Da Sie jedoch einen
Macintosh haben, könnten Sie mit Mozilla auf unsere Website zugreifen.

Wir bitten Sie um Verständnis und freuen uns, Sie bald wieder auf unserer
Website begrüssen zu dürfen.

Freundliche Grüsse

Ayla Susak
Kundendienst LeShop.ch

Ch. des Chalets 7
1279 Chavannes-de-Bogis
kunden@leshop.ch

end quote.
I do not have a macintosh though.

And no, their products are not unique. And they wouldn't deliver to the
town I wanted. Oh well.

--
Fritz

From:	Steven V. Gunhouse
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:42:50 GMT

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:49:12 -0800, Fritz Oppliger
wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:53:28 GMT, Steven V. Gunhouse
> wrote:
>
> -x
>>>>
>>>> Still, if you wish your communication with webmasters to result in an
>>>> improvement of the site, it is best to stay polite. Firm but polite :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I had a discussion for long time with the webmaster and he is not
>>> willing to change anything.
>>
>> What exactly needs to be changed? As I said yesterday, if you actually
>> fake IE by modifying their script, it looks fine.
>>
> I had a look at the script but am too much of an utter JSnovice to know
> what needs to be changed & how to apply it.
> Possibly when you get to the checkout it applies a negative total?
> wouldn't that be nice.
> I got email back from them saying without details that there are
> problems...:
>
> quote
> Sehr geehrter Herr
>
> Vielen Dank für Ihr E-Mail.
>
> Die Navigation auf unserer Website gestaltet mit Safari und Opera läuft
> in der Tat nicht problemlos. Da Sie jedoch einen
> Macintosh haben, könnten Sie mit Mozilla auf unsere Website zugreifen.
>
> Wir bitten Sie um Verständnis und freuen uns, Sie bald wieder auf
> unserer Website begrüssen zu dürfen.
>
> Freundliche Grüsse
>
> Ayla Susak
> Kundendienst LeShop.ch
>
> Ch. des Chalets 7
> 1279 Chavannes-de-Bogis
> kunden@leshop.ch
>
> end quote.
> I do not have a macintosh though.
>
> And no, their products are not unique. And they wouldn't deliver to the
> town I wanted. Oh well.
>

Not that I speak German.

Why believe them? Their script doesn't even recognize Opera 7 (or 8),
except that it is Opera and not a known version.

The actual shopping site is at www.le-shop.ch, so start there. Actually,
start at their Javascript,
http://www.le-shop.ch/javascript/BrowserOSDetectV6.js

Since you're only changing your own local files and not theirs, we only
need to make their script so it doesn't block you. So it doesn't have to
be perfect, I'd just make the change below ... go to View, Source, find
the two lines ...

// one day maybe, we hope... :(
// opera5up or opera6up

.... and add the line ...

is_ie5up = is_ie5up || is_opera

This will convince their page that you are using IE 5 or better. Save the
change to your cache, then go to www.le-shop.ch, you'll see their sign-in
page. See if it works from there.

You see, the point is that they don't even seem to know about Opera 7 (or
now 8 b1). Though their script says it was last updated Sept. of '04,
there is not even a mention of Opera 7. So they don't know whether their
page would work or not! There were quite a number of sites which didn't
work with 6 that do with 7, how do they even know?

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

From:	Lee Harvey
Subject:	Re: masquerade not working
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:52:39 -0500

Fritz Oppliger wrote:
> Tried to go here:
> http://www.migros-shop.ch/
> even with Opera8 set to identify as IE they don't like me.
> Well I don't like them either.
> On Opera's side, the masquerade could be more devious.
> On Migros' side, they need to be told they are a bunch of LAZY AMATEURS.

Try this:

1) Disable JavaScript in Opera
2) Then navigate to:
http://www.le-shop.ch/cgi-bin/leshop/uk/Welcome.jsp

While the site might not be 100% functional, you can at least get in and
have a look around. Sadly, it appears their shopping cart functionality
requires JavaScript.

Feel free to send them some friendly hate mail. ;)