"Troglodyte" wrote in message
news:41d531ed$1@news.iconz.co.nz...
> well, 24 bucks for 3 months. What are the hook ups like ? Anyone know ?

What have you got to lose by trying them out? I don't think they have a
news server though.

E. Scrooge

From:	paora
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:08:38 GMT

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 00:21:18 +1300, Troglodyte
wrote:

>well, 24 bucks for 3 months. What are the hook ups like ? Anyone know ?

With my current service due for renewal in a few days time I decided
to give KOL a try - I hardly notice much, if any, difference to my
Slingshot connection and I found Slinghot delivered me a service that
was at least the equal of any other ISP - even those that charged
50+% more.

I'm not sure about newsgroup access with KOL but I use
news.individual.net anyway.

From:	Gurble
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 11:41:39 +1300

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 00:21:18 +1300, Troglodyte had
this to say:

>well, 24 bucks for 3 months. What are the hook ups like ? Anyone know ?

As with everything, you get what you pay for...

From:	joe99 at comic.com
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 11:53:42 -0800

Gurble wrote:
>
> On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 00:21:18 +1300, Troglodyte had
> this to say:
>
> >well, 24 bucks for 3 months. What are the hook ups like ? Anyone know ?
>
> As with everything, you get what you pay for...

Yeah, right..

From:	Brendan
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 1 Jan 2005 13:34:48 +1300

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 11:41:39 +1300, Gurble wrote:

>>well, 24 bucks for 3 months. What are the hook ups like ? Anyone know ?
>
> As with everything, you get what you pay for...

Paying extra doesn't guarantee a damn thing.

--

.... Brendan

"Anyone can do any amount of work provided it isn't the work he's supposed to be doing at that moment." -- Robert Benchley

Note: All my comments are copyright 1/01/2005 1:16:09 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

From:	Gurble
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 14:10:09 +1300

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 13:34:48 +1300, Brendan
had this to say:

>On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 11:41:39 +1300, Gurble wrote:
>
>>>well, 24 bucks for 3 months. What are the hook ups like ? Anyone know ?
>>
>> As with everything, you get what you pay for...
>
>Paying extra doesn't guarantee a damn thing.

But paying less almost definately does.

From:	Brendan
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 1 Jan 2005 14:49:32 +1300

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 14:10:09 +1300, Gurble wrote:

>>> As with everything, you get what you pay for...
>>
>>Paying extra doesn't guarantee a damn thing.
>
> But paying less almost definately does.

Anyone here will be able to tell you of many times they paid less for
something than someone else did, and got a better result.

--

.... Brendan

"The gambling known as business looks with austere disfavor upon the business known as gambling." -- Ambrose Bierce

Note: All my comments are copyright 1/01/2005 2:47:06 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

From:	Gurble
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 15:04:45 +1300

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 14:49:32 +1300, Brendan
had this to say:

>On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 14:10:09 +1300, Gurble wrote:
>
>>>> As with everything, you get what you pay for...
>>>
>>>Paying extra doesn't guarantee a damn thing.
>>
>> But paying less almost definately does.
>
>Anyone here will be able to tell you of many times they paid less for
>something than someone else did, and got a better result.

A wise man once said to me:

Excellent Service, Quality Product, Cheapest Price.

Pick Any Two.

In many cases these days (eg a certain red shed), this has become
"pick any one". Generally, it is a tradeoff between the three. eg the
cheaper the price, the lower the service and quality. The higher the
quality, the more you pay (or the lower the service). Think of it as
three numbers between one and 10 (representing the above), that can
add up to no more than about 16 collectively. Adding up to more than
16 usually results in a business failing - either they are too
expensive (so people don't want them), or they are not costing things
correctly, and losing money. Much lower than 15 or 16 has the same
result.

It is simply not possible for a business to offer all three and
survive (or even a "10" in two of them), as many businesses discover
(often too late - see the atrocious stats of business survival in NZ).

I challenge you to name a business where this doesn't apply, that has
been trading for more than three years (ie sustainable).

From:	E. Scrooge
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 1 Jan 2005 16:53:36 +1300

"Gurble" wrote in message
news:ge0ct09mphe3vdnha2j2t7l809ijs5sk3f@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 14:49:32 +1300, Brendan
> had this to say:
>
>>On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 14:10:09 +1300, Gurble wrote:
>>
>>>>> As with everything, you get what you pay for...
>>>>
>>>>Paying extra doesn't guarantee a damn thing.
>>>
>>> But paying less almost definately does.
>>
>>Anyone here will be able to tell you of many times they paid less for
>>something than someone else did, and got a better result.
>
> A wise man once said to me:
>
> Excellent Service, Quality Product, Cheapest Price.
>
> Pick Any Two.
>
>
> In many cases these days (eg a certain red shed), this has become
> "pick any one". Generally, it is a tradeoff between the three. eg the
> cheaper the price, the lower the service and quality. The higher the
> quality, the more you pay (or the lower the service). Think of it as
> three numbers between one and 10 (representing the above), that can
> add up to no more than about 16 collectively. Adding up to more than
> 16 usually results in a business failing - either they are too
> expensive (so people don't want them), or they are not costing things
> correctly, and losing money. Much lower than 15 or 16 has the same
> result.
>
> It is simply not possible for a business to offer all three and
> survive (or even a "10" in two of them), as many businesses discover
> (often too late - see the atrocious stats of business survival in NZ).
>
> I challenge you to name a business where this doesn't apply, that has
> been trading for more than three years (ie sustainable).

Slingshot is more reliable than ihug. Not only is the connection speed
slightly faster than ihug, but it's faster than Xtra as well. Just recently
I got to try Xtra on someone's computer while sorting out problems for them.
It was on Xtra at 49,000Kbs, then on connecting to Xtra again it's best was
50,000Kbs. Twice I had the same computer connecting to my Slingshot account
at 52,000Kbs.
Not a lot of difference of cousre, but then I'm only paying about $10 a
month less for a slightly faster service as well.
There's no reason why the new nationwide outfit shouldn't be just as
reliable as ihug and Xtra LOL.

E. Scrooge

From:	Ralph Fox
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sun, 02 Jan 2005 07:57:16 +0000

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 16:53:36 +1300, in message
<1104551618.223937@ftpsrv1>, "E. Scrooge" wrote:

> Slingshot is more reliable than ihug. Not only is the connection speed
> slightly faster than ihug, but it's faster than Xtra as well. Just recently
> I got to try Xtra on someone's computer while sorting out problems for them.
> It was on Xtra at 49,000Kbs, then on connecting to Xtra again it's best was
> 50,000Kbs. Twice I had the same computer connecting to my Slingshot account
> at 52,000Kbs.

Does reliability equal speed?

I can connect to Paradise at 49,333 but to Xtra at only 48,000.

However, when there is noise on the line, I cannot connect to Paradise
at all but I can still connect to Xtra.

I might guess that Paradise's modems are configured for maximum speed
over reliability, whereas Xtra's modems are configured for reliability
over maximum speed.

--
Cheers,
Ralph

"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you;
but if you really make them think, they'll hate you."

From:	Gurble
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 17:42:18 +1300

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 16:53:36 +1300, "E. Scrooge" (*sling)> had this to say:

>>>>>> As with everything, you get what you pay for...
>>>>>
>>>>>Paying extra doesn't guarantee a damn thing.
>>>>
>> A wise man once said to me:
>>
>> Excellent Service, Quality Product, Cheapest Price.
>>
>> Pick Any Two.
>>
>> In many cases these days (eg a certain red shed), this has become
>> "pick any one". Generally, it is a tradeoff between the three. eg the
>> cheaper the price, the lower the service and quality. The higher the
>> quality, the more you pay (or the lower the service). Think of it as
>> three numbers between one and 10 (representing the above), that can
>> add up to no more than about 16 collectively. Adding up to more than
>> 16 usually results in a business failing - either they are too
>> expensive (so people don't want them), or they are not costing things
>> correctly, and losing money. Much lower than 15 or 16 has the same
>> result.
>>
>> I challenge you to name a business where this doesn't apply, that has
>> been trading for more than three years (ie sustainable).
>
>There's no reason why the new nationwide outfit shouldn't be just as
>reliable as ihug and Xtra LOL.
>
Being that they haven't been trading (as an ISP, at least) for three
years, there is no indication that their pricing is sustainable.

Oh, and there's still no evidence of any level of quality or service
(not to say that it's not necessarily good, just that there have been
no comments thus far).

From:	Brendan
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sun, 2 Jan 2005 22:55:45 +1300

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 15:04:45 +1300, Gurble wrote:

>>Anyone here will be able to tell you of many times they paid less for
>>something than someone else did, and got a better result.

> In many cases these days (eg a certain red shed), this has become
> "pick any one".

That is simply not true.

The Warehouse sells many products which are exactly the same as other more
expensive shops for less money. Their jewelry is one example amongst many.

What specifically is wrong with their service ?

Quality ? Come off it - it's all made in china whatever shop you go into!

[snip long winded and unnecessary explanation]

That is circular logic.

> It is simply not possible for a business to offer all three and
> survive (or even a "10" in two of them), as many businesses discover
> (often too late - see the atrocious stats of business survival in NZ).

The problem with business in NZ is not so much related to your ratio, but
more related to the risk averse, gutless nature of larger investors (banks,
venture capital) and the dispersed nature of our population.

> I challenge you to name a business where this doesn't apply, that has
> been trading for more than three years (ie sustainable).

Warehouse. They meet or exceed the minimum levels in each catagory. If they
did not they would have been out of business years ago.

If the price was too high, someone else would be undercutting them.

If the service was too low, mail order would win.

If the quality was too low, warranty replacements would have bankrupted
them.

--

.... Brendan

"There is no abstract art. You must always start with something. Afterward you can remove all traces of reality." -- Pablo Picasso

Note: All my comments are copyright 2/01/2005 10:21:00 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

From:	Gurble
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 00:44:17 +1300

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 22:55:45 +1300, Brendan
had this to say:

>
>If the price was too high, someone else would be undercutting them.

Many other places do. They are actually not that cheap for many items.

>If the service was too low, mail order would win.

Come on, have you ever tried to get help there?

>If the quality was too low, warranty replacements would have bankrupted
>them.

Last year I went to TWH on Boxing day, and the queue to the returns
counter was literally out the door and out into the carpark.

IMO, their SQP ratio is about 3/3/9 when compared to their competition
(5 being average).

From:	Adder
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Mon, 3 Jan 2005 13:49:07 +1300

In article in nz.comp on
Mon, 03 Jan 2005 00:44:17 +1300, Gurble says...

> Last year I went to TWH on Boxing day, and the queue to the returns
> counter was literally out the door and out into the carpark.

and how many of those were exchanges for xmas gifts that were not needed

From:	Troglodyte
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 11:45:49 +1300

Gurble wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 22:55:45 +1300, Brendan
> had this to say:
>
>
>>If the price was too high, someone else would be undercutting them.
>
>
> Many other places do. They are actually not that cheap for many items.
>
>
>>If the service was too low, mail order would win.
>
>
> Come on, have you ever tried to get help there?
>
>
>>If the quality was too low, warranty replacements would have bankrupted
>>them.
>
>
> Last year I went to TWH on Boxing day, and the queue to the returns
> counter was literally out the door and out into the carpark.
>
> IMO, their SQP ratio is about 3/3/9 when compared to their competition
> (5 being average).

I only asked if anyone had tried KOL yet

From:	Ralph Fox
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Mon, 03 Jan 2005 09:32:00 +0000

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 11:45:49 +1300, in message
<41D8799D.3010501@orcon.net.nz>, Troglodyte wrote:

> I only asked if anyone had tried KOL yet

Don't worry. Threads have a life of their own, and can
wander off in directions where the OP never intended.

From:	Troglodyte
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Tue, 04 Jan 2005 01:44:01 +1300

Ralph Fox wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 11:45:49 +1300, in message
> <41D8799D.3010501@orcon.net.nz>, Troglodyte wrote:
>
>
>>I only asked if anyone had tried KOL yet
>
>
> Don't worry. Threads have a life of their own, and can
> wander off in directions where the OP never intended.
>
>
>

tell me about it

From:	bAZZ
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:17:57 +1300

In article <41D93E11.7060401@orcon.net.nz>, nth@orcon.net.nz says...
> Ralph Fox wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 11:45:49 +1300, in message
> > <41D8799D.3010501@orcon.net.nz>, Troglodyte wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I only asked if anyone had tried KOL yet
> >
> >
> > Don't worry. Threads have a life of their own, and can
> > wander off in directions where the OP never intended.
> >
> >
> >
>
> tell me about it
>

FYI I am currently using it as I speak. Trialled it for a friend and
they went broadband in end and had paid for 3 mnths @ 24.95. Am now
using it full time and it seems to be OK. Have not had busy signals etc
and good speeds. For the price I reckon it rocks.

HTH
--
--
bAZZ..>>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you try me, you'll buy me
If you buy me, you'll use me
If you use me, you'll abuse me
If you abuse me, I'll own you.

From:	Brendan
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:31:57 +1300

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 00:44:17 +1300, Gurble wrote:

>>If the price was too high, someone else would be undercutting them.
>
> Many other places do. They are actually not that cheap for many items.

And yet people come back - must be the service or the quality...

>>If the service was too low, mail order would win.
>
> Come on, have you ever tried to get help there?

Yes, many times and I find them no worse than others.

>>If the quality was too low, warranty replacements would have bankrupted
>>them.
>
> Last year I went to TWH on Boxing day, and the queue to the returns
> counter was literally out the door and out into the carpark.

Whose to say they were not people wishing to exchange un-needed presents
for something else ?

> IMO, their SQP ratio is about 3/3/9 when compared to their competition
> (5 being average).

And who are these competitors that get the 5 then ? Money where your mouth
is time I think.

--

.... Brendan

"We have nothing to fear but the filigree of evil."
- John Starrett

Note: All my comments are copyright 3/01/2005 10:19:09 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

From:	Steve Marshall
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 16:20:15 +1300

KOL?

Korea On Line? - The service is as bad as you get from AOL, but you
get a little Kim Jong-Il puppet as an Online Assistant

Kiwi On line? - Ditto, but the Goodnight Kiwi is resurrected for the
Online Assistant task

ka kite,
Steve
Bring back the animated paper-clip, I say.

From:	al
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 01 Jan 2005 07:17:45 +1300

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 00:21:18 +1300, Troglodyte wrote:

> well, 24 bucks for 3 months. What are the hook ups like ? Anyone know ?

Intermittent disconnects according to a friend

From:	E. Scrooge
Subject:	Re: Anyone tried KOL yet.
Date:	Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:28:22 +1300

"al" wrote in message
news:pan.2004.12.31.18.17.45.803487@fastmailTHIS.BITcom...
> On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 00:21:18 +1300, Troglodyte wrote:
>
> > well, 24 bucks for 3 months. What are the hook ups like ? Anyone know
?
>
> Intermittent disconnects according to a friend

One can actually get that by not setting their software options up properly.
It doesn't mean it's caused the ISP in some cases.

E. Scrooge