You appear to worship the word of men, above the Word of God.

With politicians and bureaucrats, the idolatry they practice is
ludicrous self-worship, "statolatry," They really believe that they
and their "experts" know better than all of the other people
combined including the Word of God.

Ludwig von Mises coined the wonderfully descriptive word,
"statolatry," to depict the practice of attributing superhuman
properties to the state. Those who believe they cannot obtain the
benefits of good roads and bridges, an educated public, old-age
security, clean air and water, medical insurance, a safe food supply,
space exploration, mass transit, cheap housing, community and national
security, poor relief, just resolution of civil disputes, crime
suppression and restitution, or any other benefit routinely monopolized
by governments, without the agency of a violent state, engageIn the
practice of statolatry.

They fail to comprehend the benevolent, all needs-fulfilling effect of
living in accord with the Jesus principles.

Statolatry is the most common form of idolatry extant in the world
today.

In the eyes of God and Jesus it may be the most reprehensible form from
all voluntary associations of human beings, and from other pagan idols,
and upon which its worshipers ultimately depend for their benefits, is
violence.
And as we alll know, violence begets violence.

Tom, Without Prejudice

From:	Abbot
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	21 Jan 2005 00:46:05 -0800

Jimmy_For_Freedom wrote:
> Can you try a little harder there, Jack. You've cherry picked some
> biblical words and twisted a pro-tax meaning around them. Looks like
> your ability to understand God's word is severely hampered by your
> brainwashing handlers.
>
> Jimmy

Abbot)Let the record show Jimmy can't keep up.
You are dismissed, sonny.

From:	Abbot
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	20 Jan 2005 06:40:35 -0800

Jimmy_For_Freedom wrote:
> So where's your valid biblical counter claim, Jack?
>
> Jimmy

Abbot) My God, that I have to straighten out you ignoramuses on the law
is bad enough. Now I have to tell you Bible thumping idiots what the
Good Book means.

As usual the passage that you boys love to quote "Render onto Cesar
what is Cesar's and give to God what is God's." contradicts your
claims.

In Matthew 22:17 Jesus was asked a loaded question much like that in
Mark 12:28-31 in which he was asked what was the greatest Commandment.

If Jesus had wanted to endorse detaxing in Matthew he would have done
so plainly.

Instead he affirmed that while we are we are responsible to God in all
things civil government makes legitimate requests of us to which we
should comply.

From:	Abbot
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	20 Jan 2005 02:37:26 -0800

Abbot) Taxes are not theft, Tommyforbrains. We have covered this ground
already, although you want to deny it. Your ability to keep blissfully
jabbering on, advocating positions that have already been destroyed, is
remarkable.

At its essence your argument is the self serving absurdity that God
does not want men and women to organize themselves in just societies
that serve the common good.

You advance this argument by making a muddled mess of God's words in
the same way you tried to make the law into gibberish. Having had your
hat handed to you in the legal venue you seem to think that you can
pretend that your silly posits make sense if you say that the highest
authority available, God, backs you.
Your argument is mere self-deluding pap.

From:	Jimmy_For_Freedom
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	20 Jan 2005 22:40:09 -0800

Can you try a little harder there, Jack. You've cherry picked some
biblical words and twisted a pro-tax meaning around them. Looks like
your ability to understand God's word is severely hampered by your
brainwashing handlers.

Jimmy

From:	TOM4bender at yahoo.com
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	20 Jan 2005 14:46:01 -0800

Full text available free of charge. Go to: www.jesus-on-taxes.com.

The render-unto-Caesar incident make it clear that Jesus did not
obfuscate, did not dissemble, nor endorse taxation,nor sanction the
state, nor exonerate Caesar of theft.

He did not answer their question yes or no, but his response boldly
conveyed his position. He explicitly told them what God's law
requires, to wit: Give Caesar what belongs to Caesar. Period! No more,
no less! That is the only possible way that a moral person can treat
Caesar's property, or anyone else's property, in accordance with
God's unequivocal command, "Thou shalt not steal." And that is
the only way Jesus' words can be construed.

He meant precisely what he said! He did not tell them to give David's
coin to Caesar, and no one can doubt that the coin went back into
David's pocket. Everyone who witnessed this incident knew that the
coin belonged to David. It is also likely that many of the witnesses,
though not all, realized that his answer constituted a resounding
denunciation of Caesar's tax. Certainly his disciples understood that
Jesus meant what he said.

To many who were present Jesus' words conveyed this: If you are dumb
enough to believe your money belongs to Caesar because his face and
seal are on it, give it to him; and by obvious inference, otherwise,
keep it.

No one in the Roman Empire believed that their money belonged to Caesar
because his face and inscription were imprinted on it. Like
Washington's face on a present-day quarter, or Cadillac's emblem on
your car, Caesar's face and inscription on Roman coins--the
coin-maker's mark-- had no bearing whatsoever on the concurrent
ownership of Roman coins. Any other possible arrangement would have
destroyed their monetary value as a medium of exchange, which is what
money is.

Some of Jesus' inquisitors may have understood that he had condemned
Caesar's tax just as they had anticipated he would. However, they
also realized that his response, removed from the context of the
incident and repeated against him later at a trial before the Roman
governor for resisting Rome's tax, might serve to exonerate rather
than convict him.

In other words, they worried that Pilate would be bamboozled by
Jesus' response in the same way that Christian exegetes appear to
have been. That is why his answer so amazed and disconcerted those who
thought for sure they would trap him.

In order to give credence to the incredible proposition that Jesus'
endorsed paying taxes when he said give to Caesar what is Caesar's,
the exegetes resort to absurdity. They posit an untenable hypothesis as
if it was historical fact that at the time of Jesus Roman coins were
understood to be the property of the emperor. Thus, David's coin was
Caesar's property, not David's, and Caesar was only taking back
what he already owned when he taxed David.

The Jewish leaders who wanted Jesus put to death did not know the most
important fact there is to know about Jesus: that he is the Messiah,
son of God, son of Man, personal Savior of those who embrace the truth
and his principles. They did not know this because they refused to hear
the good news he proclaimed.

They were committed to defending the status quo, by which they
personally prospered materially, and which Jesus, by the principles he
taught, threatened. As they saw matters, they simply could
not afford to believe him.

They did, however, have good intelligence on the man Jesus. When they
sent spies to trap him in speech, they were accurate in their
assessment of his manly character: "Master...right in what you say
and teach...show deference to no one...teach the way of God in
accordance with truth." They were safe in assuming that Jesus would
denounce Caesar's tax. They understood themselves that taxation
violates God's commandment, "Thou shalt not steal," and they knew
Jesus would uphold
God's law and condemn theft.

For sure they knew that Jesus had repeatedly equated collecting taxes
with sinfulness on previous occasions.

They were confident that his answer would be, "No!" Their plot to
trap Jesus should have worked, given his comprehensive knowledge and
unflinching support of God's law, the sinful nature of taxation, and
his character as a man. But their plot failed because his adversaries
did not
comprehend Jesus' divine nature. It simply wasn't in them, as it is
not in us,to trick, trap or fool this unique son of God.

Those Bible scholars who profess that Jesus avoided the question, "Is
it lawful to pay the tax; should we pay it?" because he did not want
to offend one group or another, do grave injustice to his integrity.

Those adversaries who tried to trap Jesus and who subsequently accused
him before Pilate had a higher opinion of the character of Jesus than
these latter-day exegetes.

His enemies did not take Jesus for a people pleaser, but rather a man
of great integrity who "showed deference to no one."
Tom. Without Prejudice

From:	Jimmy_For_Freedom
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:14:13 -0800

Wasn't even trying to keep up, Raider. Some of us are so far ahead,
we're lapping you giving the appearance you are ahead. Can you see the
point, Jack?

Jimmy

From:	Vicegerent
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	22 Jan 2005 12:13:53 -0800

ack Foster (AKA: Abbot, Austin Rayder, Quantrell, Shitmonkey,
and a myriad of other names for a JackAss 'damage control goon'
has continued to spew the above 'off topic' shit all over this
NG for the last few years. His ploy is 'ad hominem' attacks on
the revelators of the Vatican's evil plundering of the people
of Canada and the USA.

This jerk fantasizes about suicide, physical violence (against
himself), incest, child molestation, mass tragedy and deprivation,
and other wierd things that can only be attributed to a Jesuit
eunich. Now, let's get back to the original topical theme of
this NG:

(His ego website:) http://home1.gte.net/fosterjd/author.htm
*************************************************************
In consideration of the queer jerk and Vatican damage control
goon, Jack Foster's(Abbot's) post on this NG regarding what
he tries to show as being an erroneous assessment of that which
a US court case may have had argued in it, one has only to check
out ANY legislation of the Federal, State, County or City
government to see that such legislation applies ONLY to 'persons
- legal identities created by the State in the birth certificate
as 'natural persons'.

PS: Note that the title 'Abbot' is a post in the RC Church -
a likely pseudonym for a Vatican goon, and just as fitting
as the previus pseudonym of this queer jerk Foster - Quantrell,
the mass murderer of Kansas and Missouri during the Civil War.
Seem that both thrive on death, and vicious blood letting of
innocents, like his hero, GW Shrub.

*************************************************************
So, you think/thought you had to/have to file a 'tax return
- 1040 (USA) or T1 (Canada)?

StaR has adequately shown you in his multiple posts that a 'person'
is a legal entity - a fiction. A 'person' is not a free will
man or woman, as created by Creator God. If 'natural person' is
used to describe you, then it is a legal fiction name (usually all
caps or family name first) supposedly attached to your body (originally
by the birth certificate of immigration papers), and supposedly changes
your status from 'free will' to that of 'galley slave' on the make
believe ship called the 'UNITED STATES' in the USA, or the 'CROWN"
in Canada.

The Canadian Income Tax Act, as all Acts or Statutes of government,
(USA or Canada) is only applicable to 'persons'. Section 2 says that
every person resident in Canada shall pay an income tax. Section 150
says that every person resident in Canada shall file a 'return of
income' in prescribed form each year.

Similarly worded statements to this effect are in Title 26 USC.

Therefore, if you are not a 'person', why are you filing and paying
income tax?

Learn more about this by going to Eldon Warman's webpage:

http://www.detaxcanada.org/forced.htm

The form names are different in the USA, but the required
lines on the forms to be used are identical.

Vicegerent

From:	TOM4bender at yahoo.com
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	20 Jan 2005 02:06:40 -0800

Law that makes taxation "legal" is not God's law; such law is a
violation of God's law. On the other hand, the statutes of
legislatures that affirm God's law are merely pretentious and
entirely redundant.

God's law is unequivocal, "Thou shalt not steal."

Jesus was not duped by the sophistry required to distinguish taxation
from other palpably sinful means of acquisition. On several occasions
before the render-unto-Caesar incident, Jesus had openly expressed his
negative regard for taxation. His attitude towards the act of tax
collecting is reflected in remarks recorded in the Gospel of Matthew:

"For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Donot
tax collectors do the same?" (5:46) When the Pharisees saw this, they
said to his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors
and sinners?" But when he heard this, he said, "Those who are well
have no need of a physician, but those who are sick...I have
come to call not the righteous but sinners." (9:11-13)

If another member of the church sins against you, go and point out the
fault when the two of you are alone. If the member listens to you, you
have regained that one. But if you are not listened to, take one or two
others along with you, so that every word may be confirmed by two or
three witnesses. If the member refuses to listen to them, tell it to
the church; and if the offender refuses to listen even to the church,
let such a one be to you as a Gentile, and a tax collector."
(18:15-17)

Jesus said to them (viz., the chief priests and the elders of the
people), "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes
are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you." (21:31)

Why did Jesus repeatedly point to tax collectors as exemplars of
sinfulness? Probably because their sin, theft by taxation, was
perpetrated openly, committed publicly under the carnal sanction of
illicit law.

It was, therefore, the most conspicuous of all sins at the time of
Jesus, just as it is today.

Even prostitutes practice their trade with greater discretion than tax
collectors.

Given the destitute and still declining economic circumstances of poor
Jews at the time of Jesus, given the substantial role that taxes played
in their impoverishment, given the brutality of Roman tax collectors'
methods, and given Jesus' compassionate regard for the poor, the most
conspicuous archetypical sinner in the eyes of Jesus and many others
was the disreputable tax collector. Unless he has quit his profession,
a tax collector cannot live by the Golden Rule of Jesus: "Do to
others as you would have them do to you." (Lk 6:31) What the tax
collector does to his fellow citizens (take their property), they can
never do to him.

Jesus castigated the Pharisees and lawyers for nullifying God's law
by means of human ordinances. When the Jewish leaders criticized
Jesus' followers for disregarding their man-made rules, he called
them hypocrites, and that is when he warned them that even tax
collectors and prostitutes would enter heaven before they did. (Mt
15:1ff, 16:3, Lk
7:30ff, 11:39ff, 13:10ff, 14:3f)

Tom, Without Prejudice

From:	Abbot
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	22 Jan 2005 18:05:00 -0800

Abbott) Your cut and paste post ignores the fact that you and your
posse have purposefully misrepresented biblical teachings in the same
way you have ignore the law.

In this world you answer to those of us smart enough to correct you. In
the next, world your bastardization of God's word will be dent with by
your maker.

From:	Jimmy_For_Freedom
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	20 Jan 2005 04:42:07 -0800

So where's your valid biblical counter claim, Jack?

Jimmy

From:	Vicegerent
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	22 Jan 2005 20:28:01 -0800

Jack Foster (AKA: Abbot, Austin Rayder, Quantrell, Shitmonkey,
and a myriad of other names for a JackAss 'damage control goon'
has continued to spew the above 'off topic' shit all over this
NG for the last few years. His ploy is 'ad hominem' attacks on
the revelators of the Vatican's evil plundering of the people
of Canada and the USA.

This jerk fantasizes about suicide, physical violence (against
himself), incest, child molestation, mass tragedy and deprivation,
and other wierd things that can only be attributed to a Jesuit
eunich. Now, let's get back to the original topical theme of
this NG:

(His ego website:) http://home1.gte.net/fosterjd/author.htm
*************************************************************
In consideration of the queer jerk and Vatican damage control
goon, Jack Foster's(Abbot's) post on this NG regarding what
he tries to show as being an erroneous assessment of that which
a US court case may have had argued in it, one has only to check
out ANY legislation of the Federal, State, County or City
government to see that such legislation applies ONLY to 'persons
- legal identities created by the State in the birth certificate
as 'natural persons'.

PS: Note that the title 'Abbot' is a post in the RC Church -
a likely pseudonym for a Vatican goon, and just as fitting
as the previus pseudonym of this queer jerk Foster - Quantrell,
the mass murderer of Kansas and Missouri during the Civil War.
Seem that both thrive on death, and vicious blood letting of
innocents, like his hero, GW Shrub.

*************************************************************
So, you think/thought you had to/have to file a 'tax return
- 1040 (USA) or T1 (Canada)?

StaR has adequately shown you in his multiple posts that a 'person'
is a legal entity - a fiction. A 'person' is not a free will
man or woman, as created by Creator God. If 'natural person' is
used to describe you, then it is a legal fiction name (usually all
caps or family name first) supposedly attached to your body (originally
by the birth certificate of immigration papers), and supposedly changes
your status from 'free will' to that of 'galley slave' on the make
believe ship called the 'UNITED STATES' in the USA, or the 'CROWN"
in Canada.

The Canadian Income Tax Act, as all Acts or Statutes of government,
(USA or Canada) is only applicable to 'persons'. Section 2 says that
every person resident in Canada shall pay an income tax. Section 150
says that every person resident in Canada shall file a 'return of
income' in prescribed form each year.

Similarly worded statements to this effect are in Title 26 USC.

Therefore, if you are not a 'person', why are you filing and paying
income tax?

Learn more about this by going to Eldon Warman's webpage:

http://www.detaxcanada.org/forced.htm

The form names are different in the USA, but the required
lines on the forms to be used are identical.

Vicegerent

From:	Abbot
Subject:	Re: TAXING VIOLATES GOD'S LAW
Date:	21 Jan 2005 00:53:15 -0800

Abbot) Tommy, if it weren't for anti-tax, anti-government websites you
won't have anything to post and you won't know what to think.
Consistent with the lies of detaxing your source puts words in Jesus'
mouth.

The plain fact is the preponderance of Biblical scholarship supports my
position