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>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:01:00 +1100
>From: "Graeme Taylor"
>Subject: Fw: TURMEL:MacDonaldization of CCs
Hi all, Firstly, I wish to excuse my using the 'z' in the
spelling of MacDonaldization, but sometimes, also the case
with the term Globalization, the US spelling seems more
appropriate than the English "isation".
One of the few tools available to communities against the
homoginisation (maybe a 'z' would have been better here
too), are local currencies. How else can local regions
maintain identity in this californication of our planet?
John has put together the most lucid history of usury that I
have thus far read. I edited some bits of his last post, so
as to focus on the analysis.
> I don't think I've ever explained how usury is the cause
> of wars so this is brand new.
> David Astle's Babylonian Woe set the historical premise.
JCT: Thank you. It's incredible that such new arguments can
appear after 25 years.
>From: ijccr@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:17:20 -0800 (PST)
>From: Jon Chance
>Subject: Bravo to John Turmel
Bravo to John Turmel for persisting in pointing out the
"secret" facts about usury, the IMF/World Bank Group and
banking.
Time-Energy Accounting (TEA dollars) is much like UNILETS
but includes a declared negative interest rate and a
connection to the reality that sustainable economic
development is dependent upon harvesting renewable energy.
JCT: Making it needlessly complicated and hard to understand
to cover up a few serious flaws.
Please examine the spreadsheets posted in FILES:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Time-Energy-Accounting
Time + Energy =3D Wealth. What's Your Share?
Whereas most central-bank currencies are backed by nothing
but hypothetical "debt",
JCT: They're backed by the bearer's ability to pay taxes
with it. That's not what I'd call "nothing."
artificial inflation, taxation without representation,
terrorism and warfare, TEA dollars are 100% backed by HUMAN
TIME and RENEWABLE ENERGY....
11. Restores a full-reserve interest-free currency system.
JCT: I want a zero-reserve interest-free currency system so
Jon's kept this backwards despite my entreaties all these
years. What can I say about a nice guy who just can't pass
the course?
12. Removes the primary cause of political-economic
instability, inflation, poverty, crime, slavery, terrorism,
warfare, waste of resources and environmental degradation.
13. Enhances life and liberty for all.
JCT: Bingo.
The Treasury Network issues TIME DIVIDENDS backed by human
lifetime ($1 = one hour = $730 per month) plus ENERGY
DIVIDENDS issued to individual investor-consumers
("convestors") of harvested renewable energy ($1 = ten kWh)
which can be freely traded in the marketplace.
JCT: What gives Jon the right to select $1 = one hour when
it's already at One Hour = $10US Greendollars = 6
Greenpounds UK = 60 French Greenfrancs = 20 German
Greenmarks = $12 Canadian Greendollars? Why should the world
think if of $1 = one hour? Because Jon's American?
A maximum energy dividend of three thousand TEA
dollars ($3,000 or 30,000 kWh RE) per month may be
issued to each individual.
JCT: Where he arbitrarily comes up with these numbers has
been another of my criticisms. I personally prefer a maximum
of ($2,800 or 28,000 kWh RE) per month. Maybe not.
Please explore the FILES, PHOTOS and LINKS.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Time-Energy-Accounting
- Jonathan
JCT: Sad to say it's not impressive even for a guy who never
passed his banking systems engineering test.
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:44:33 -0800 (PST)
>From: Jon Chance
>Subject: Re: Bravo to John Turmel
Graeme, Perhaps today's so-called "economists" should learn
from history rather than repeating "our" mistakes. Jonathan
JCT: How can you say that the guys who erased the history of
interest-free currencies should learn from it rather than
repeat their mistakes. They hid it so they could repeat
those mistakes that enrich the bankers and impoverish the
people without anyone thinking there were any solutions. So
don't expect the guys who hid it to be looking hard to find
it.
>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:26:52 +1100
>From: "Graeme Taylor"
>Subject: Re: Bravo to John Turmel
> Perhaps today's so-called "economists" should learn
> from history rather than repeating "our" mistakes.
GT: It is a really interesting point you raise. Although the
history of money is absent from general school curricula,
the pseudo science of economics, which now dominates public
institutions, is a "science" which didn't even get a start
with nation state decisionmakers until 1930, and now they
dominate.
JCT: As far as I know, David Astle's "Babylonian Woe" is the
only book in the world that deals with fractional reserve
banking in antiquity. They knew the fractional reserve
credit scam 5000 years ago. Probably more. He's the only
Professor of Banking Systems Engineering who wrote a worthy
book on the subject. I have a great book report at my home
page.
But is really necessary to read about all the gory
historical details when we realize the great trading
caravans that took your gold, your slaves, or you if you
didn't pay your exponentially growing debts. It explains all
history. If they reported inflation, they had interest to
generate it. If they were conquering you to move in, they
were refugees but if they were demanding booty in gold and
silver and slaves, they were debtors to the great
international gold bullion cartel that ruled the world then
and now.
GT: Every history of money that I have read, takes it back
to barter. No, that's a fallacy. P2P transactions were
usurped by a ruling elite that invented money, at interest.
JCT: No takes the usury credit fractional reserve system
back farther in history than David Astle who lays out how
the Slavery caravans took over whole villages and fomented
never-ending strife between tribes through their once-in-a-
while "due-date" visits.
GT: It would be great if someone were to put together a more
analytical history (oh, does that make me a revisionist?),
and that such a history of money be taught in our schools.
cheers Graeme Taylor
JCT: It's been done. No other book on the financial master-
slave relationship has moved me more than the Babylonian Woe
or the Bible. Tons of great advice on money and interest
there too. http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel/pombible.htm
>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:18:40 +1100
>From: "Graeme Taylor"
>Subject: Attn Stephen DeMeulenaere
GT: Re Turmoil Blogs
JCT: Sounds like he's upset. And yet, I bet he can't find
one thing I said to disagree with other than style.
GT: As someone cited on Mr Turmoils recent compilation,
congratulating him on his historical perspective on "money
as they sell it", I felt it appropriate to disassociate
myself from his hard headed / hard hatted comical
counterattacks.
JCT: You thought you related to the controversy just because
you liked the "usury cause of war" story? You found my
counter-attacks comical?
GT: Indeed, many people who he calls "Judas Goats" probably
never agreed with him in the first place, so how then can
they be being treacherous?
JCT: So if they're not Judas Goats working to delay getting
interest-free credit to the starving masses deliberately, I
always allow them to be ignorant morons too. There are two
choices for causing helpless people I'm trying to save with
credit to buy food and medicine to die. Moles or Morons. No
other choice. Can you suggest a third?
GT: If UNILETS is the quality of Mr Turmoils game theory,
JCT: Everyone gets a seat in Turmel-style Musical Chairs,
yes.
GT: then I wonder as to the veracity of his claims of
"beating the Viva Loss Vegas" gaming squads.
JCT: Har har har har. Martins Criminal Code lists Turmel as
an "exceptionally skilled professional gambler," my
http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel/credits.htm lists my
credentials, my http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel/gambler.htm
tells the exploits of the "Blackjack King" and
"TajProfessor," and Graeme now doubts reality if UNILETS is
the quality of my game theory? Har har har har.
GT: Then I got to wondering as to who was funding him in his
enterprise. Someone against local culture, local
sustainability and local solutions, that's for sure. cheers
Graeme Taylor
JCT: I funded the LETS Local Employment-Trading Software
that launched the complementary currency revolution as a
mere local model for my world-wide UNILETS vision. I have a
right to tout global vision given I paid to engineer your
local one for you.
I have no doubt that you reacted to my style or tone but
certainly not the substance of what I said or you would have
cited any substantive disagreement.
Stephen gives away his bent when he calls it the
"Complementary Currency movement." On the side,
complementary to the orthodox slavery model. I think of it
as a Primary Currency movement that will supplant the
orthodox usury system.
Do you see me bemoaning Stephen arguing small and weak is
best? Do you see me trying to stop his message? Of course
not, the more people hear about the doubters, the more
people in on the final laugh when UNILETS goes world-wide.
But you do see him trying to thwart my messages of global
use. Why do you think that would be? Why him trying to shut
me up and me not caring what he says?
That's the point here. Stephen represents the forces who
have been successful in shutting down my UNILETS global
message. What gives him the right to demand I not try to
promote my global model as a threat to his promotion of the
dinky model? I don't try to stop him promoting his dinky
models. I love pointing to his dinky toys to show how the
optimal model would work.
So you have the LETS Dinky Toy builder trying to stop the
message of the LETS world-machine Engineer from getting
through. Why? Why does he have to try to stop my message and
I not have to stop his?
And I cede he's been effective bad-mouthing world-wide LETS
for almost 2 decades. No one has done more to slow down LETS
social credits to the starving masses than Stephen
DeMeulenaere. He deserves to get credit for stalling
Turmel's global vision so much over the years. The World
Social Forum should know. Someone should ask him why the
UNILETS endorsed by the Millennium Forum on the Millennium
Declaration can't work?
--
Abolitionist Slave Leader John C."The Banking Systems Engineer" Turmel
for UNILETS interest-free time-based currency in U.N. resolution C6
to Governments in the http://www.un.org/millennium/declaration.htm
http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel 519-753-0645 USENET: can.politics
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