 | | From: | Toxic Tom G. | | Subject: | Holothurin & Holotoxin from Sea Cucumbers?? | | Date: | 23 Nov 2004 04:28:36 -0000 |
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 | I have some questions that I can't find by Googling:
1. Sea cucumbers are widely reported to produce holothurin
and holotoxin when threatened, dying, or spawning.
Does anyone know the LD50 for these toxins...how toxic
complared to other biotoxins?
2. I've read that, since the Sea cucumber (like Sea Apple)
contains these toxins within their body: a. a person could simply
blender the creature in menthanol; b.the menthanol would absorb
the toxins; c. filter the solids out, and d. reduce the liquid
to some type of powder or other concentrate.
Does anyone have any experience doing this?
One source said the toxin could be destroyed by boiling...how warm
can one make the liquid without affecting the toxins?
One source said the toxin worked via ingestion and another said
that stomach acids kill the toxins. Does anyone have a definitive
answer?
PLEASE POST TO NEWSGROUP, SINCE MY EMAIL ACCOUNT ISN'T WORKING.
Thank you very much,
Toxoic Tom G
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| | From: | Duncan Clark | | Subject: | Re: Holothurin & Holotoxin from Sea Cucumbers?? | | Date: | Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:50:42 +0000 |
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| Historians believe that in newspost <41A4B972.5B8E71E@hate.spam.net> on
Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Uncle Al penned the following
literary masterpiece:
>Duncan Clark wrote:
>>
>> Historians believe that in newspost <41A361A1.332F78F2@hate.spam.net> on
>> Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Uncle Al penned the following
>> literary masterpiece:
>> >http://www.bop.gov/
>> >
>> >for you (look up Martha Stewart). Go for orellanine.
>>
>> I take that as you are not there, you got away with it?
>
>Remember the lesson of the Stainless Steel Rat.
Nice one.
Duncan
--
I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing noise they make as
they go flying by.
Duncan Clark
GeneSys Ltd.
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| | From: | Uncle Al | | Subject: | Re: Holothurin & Holotoxin from Sea Cucumbers?? | | Date: | Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:13:21 -0800 |
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| "Toxic Tom G." wrote:
>
> I have some questions that I can't find by Googling:
>
> 1. Sea cucumbers are widely reported to produce holothurin
> and holotoxin when threatened, dying, or spawning.
> Does anyone know the LD50 for these toxins...how toxic
> complared to other biotoxins?
>
> 2. I've read that, since the Sea cucumber (like Sea Apple)
> contains these toxins within their body: a. a person could simply
> blender the creature in menthanol; b.the menthanol would absorb
> the toxins; c. filter the solids out, and d. reduce the liquid
> to some type of powder or other concentrate.
>
> Does anyone have any experience doing this?
>
> One source said the toxin could be destroyed by boiling...how warm
> can one make the liquid without affecting the toxins?
>
> One source said the toxin worked via ingestion and another said
> that stomach acids kill the toxins. Does anyone have a definitive
> answer?
http://www.scirus.com/
If you are contemplating commission of homicide you need temporal as
well as spatial separation or its
http://www.bop.gov/
for you (look up Martha Stewart). Go for orellanine.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| | From: | Duncan Clark | | Subject: | Re: Holothurin & Holotoxin from Sea Cucumbers?? | | Date: | Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:31:56 +0000 |
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| Historians believe that in newspost <41A361A1.332F78F2@hate.spam.net> on
Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Uncle Al penned the following
literary masterpiece:
>http://www.bop.gov/
>
>for you (look up Martha Stewart). Go for orellanine.
I take that as you are not there, you got away with it?
:-)
Duncan
--
I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing noise they make as
they go flying by.
Duncan Clark
GeneSys Ltd.
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| | From: | Uncle Al | | Subject: | Re: Holothurin & Holotoxin from Sea Cucumbers?? | | Date: | Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:40:18 -0800 |
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| Duncan Clark wrote:
>
> Historians believe that in newspost <41A361A1.332F78F2@hate.spam.net> on
> Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Uncle Al penned the following
> literary masterpiece:
> >http://www.bop.gov/
> >
> >for you (look up Martha Stewart). Go for orellanine.
>
> I take that as you are not there, you got away with it?
Remember the lesson of the Stainless Steel Rat.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| | From: | N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\) | | Subject: | Re: Holothurin & Holotoxin from Sea Cucumbers?? | | Date: | Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:43:45 -0700 |
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| Dear Toxic Tom G:
"Toxic Tom G." wrote in message
news:36e55c9f.0411221428.4cd21a54@posting.google.com...
>I have some questions that I can't find by Googling:
>
> 1. Sea cucumbers are widely reported to produce holothurin
> and holotoxin when threatened, dying, or spawning.
> Does anyone know the LD50 for these toxins...how toxic
> complared to other biotoxins?
URL:http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0104-79302002000200003&lng=pt&nrm=iso&tlng=en
.... looks like google provided a hit for holothurin, table 2
Lots more hits (79) requiring
holotoxin ld50
> 2. I've read that, since the Sea cucumber (like Sea Apple)
> contains these toxins within their body: a. a person could simply
> blender the creature in menthanol; b.the menthanol would absorb
> the toxins; c. filter the solids out, and d. reduce the liquid
> to some type of powder or other concentrate.
Note that the stuff (holothurin) is not toxic to humans, according to the
literature I've read. So it may take more than all the toxin in a single
creature to make a "dent".
David A. Smith
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| | From: | Toxic Tom G. | | Subject: | Re: Holothurin & Holotoxin from Sea Cucumbers?? | | Date: | 1 Dec 2004 15:40:05 -0000 |
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| "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" wrote in >
> > 2. I've read that, since the Sea cucumber (like Sea Apple)
> > contains these toxins within their body: a. a person could simply
> > blender the creature in menthanol; b.the menthanol would absorb
> > the toxins; c. filter the solids out, and d. reduce the liquid
> > to some type of powder or other concentrate.
>
> Note that the stuff (holothurin) is not toxic to humans, according to the
> literature I've read. So it may take more than all the toxin in a single
> creature to make a "dent".
>
> David A. Smith
I apologize. I should have introduced that I am interested in toxins simply
as a curiousity...I am not willing to murder. Perhaps it is a bit of
"forbidden fruit" aspect. I like to think that perhaps there is a series
of short stories in future dealing with many interesting/unique poisons.
(Such as ONLY recently "wild-caught" arrow-dart frogs are poisonous...
captive-bred and wild-caught-but-held-in-captivity-a-while frogs of
the same species are not toxic...due perhaps to the poisonous prey that
the wild-caught frog eat and which are not available to captive frogs).
I am surprised that the toxin isn't toxic to humans, since several sources
encourage boiling to remove toxins. And they do kill small mammals.
Perhaps we might discuss additional topics, such as why everyone gets all
worked up about ricin when abrin from Abrus is 75 times stronger and just as
easy to buy from seed dealers (at least I found it offered at a variety
of sources).
More later!
Toxic Tom G
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| | From: | N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\) | | Subject: | Re: Holothurin & Holotoxin from Sea Cucumbers?? | | Date: | Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:54:14 -0700 |
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"Toxic Tom G." wrote in message
news:36e55c9f.0411301843.3ce9bd32@posting.google.com...
> "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" wrote in
> >
>> Note that the stuff (holothurin) is not toxic to humans, according to
>> the
>> literature I've read. So it may take more than all the toxin in a
>> single
>> creature to make a "dent".
> I am surprised that the toxin isn't toxic to humans, since several
> sources
> encourage boiling to remove toxins. And they do kill small mammals.
Someone always has allergies. Populations always have weak members. Rules
always have exceptions (except this one). ;>)
David A. Smith
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