On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 20:53:41 GMT, Kevin V. Russell wrote:

> I have seen a CD with copy protection. How old is it since I know it has
> already been cracked.

Many will give the opinion that the CD itself is "cracked" already. EMI's
copy protection is physically damaging the CD. Or something like that.

Sarch

From:	DJ
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:16:54 +1100

"Sarch" wrote in message
news:33tsidF46qn80U1@individual.net...
> On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 20:53:41 GMT, Kevin V. Russell wrote:
>
>> I have seen a CD with copy protection. How old is it since I know it has
>> already been cracked.
>
> Many will give the opinion that the CD itself is "cracked" already. EMI's
> copy protection is physically damaging the CD. Or something like that.
>
> Sarch

Sarch, can you expand on this, re "physically damaging the CD"?

I have several EMI CDs with this copy protection on them and they play/sound
fine in both stand-alone CD player and CD drive.

DJ

From:	Anthony Horan
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:57:36 +1100

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:16:54 +1100, DJ wrote:

> I have several EMI CDs with this copy protection on them and they play/sound
> fine in both stand-alone CD player and CD drive.

That's because it's probably not actually copy protected. While EMI put the
Copy Control logo and assorted crap all over the artwork of every CD they
release here, it appears their manufacturing plant doesn't have the
capacity to copy-protect everything. Some examples of EMI releases that are
tagged as Copy Controlled but actually aren't:

Placebo - Once More With Feeling
David Bridie - Hotel Radio (single)
Various - West Papua: Sound Of The Morning Star

I'm sure there'll be quite a few others.

- Anthony

From:	steve
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Tue, 04 Jan 2005 11:06:28 +0100

Anthony Horan wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:16:54 +1100, DJ wrote:
>
>
>>I have several EMI CDs with this copy protection on them and they play/sound
>>fine in both stand-alone CD player and CD drive.
>
>
> That's because it's probably not actually copy protected. While EMI put the
> Copy Control logo and assorted crap all over the artwork of every CD they
> release here, it appears their manufacturing plant doesn't have the
> capacity to copy-protect everything. Some examples of EMI releases that are
> tagged as Copy Controlled but actually aren't:
>
> Placebo - Once More With Feeling
> David Bridie - Hotel Radio (single)

Could this be because David doesn't want his CD's to copy protected ?
He said so many times on his website.

> Various - West Papua: Sound Of The Morning Star
>
> I'm sure there'll be quite a few others.
>
>
> - Anthony

From:	Kevin V. Russell
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:47:18 GMT

"steve" wrote in message news:41DA6AA4.5020804@a.com...
> Anthony Horan wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:16:54 +1100, DJ wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have several EMI CDs with this copy protection on them and they
>>>play/sound fine in both stand-alone CD player and CD drive.
>>
>>
>> That's because it's probably not actually copy protected. While EMI put
>> the
>> Copy Control logo and assorted crap all over the artwork of every CD they
>> release here, it appears their manufacturing plant doesn't have the
>> capacity to copy-protect everything. Some examples of EMI releases that
>> are
>> tagged as Copy Controlled but actually aren't:
>>
>> Placebo - Once More With Feeling
>> David Bridie - Hotel Radio (single)
>
> Could this be because David doesn't want his CD's to copy protected ?
> He said so many times on his website.

Unless he owns the copyright in the recording, which I doubt, he would have
no say. The record company can do what they like.

From:	Anthony Horan
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Fri, 7 Jan 2005 18:18:20 +1100

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:47:18 GMT, Kevin V. Russell wrote:

> "steve" wrote in message news:41DA6AA4.5020804@a.com...
>> Anthony Horan wrote:
>>> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:16:54 +1100, DJ wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have several EMI CDs with this copy protection on them and they
>>>>play/sound fine in both stand-alone CD player and CD drive.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's because it's probably not actually copy protected. While EMI put
>>> the
>>> Copy Control logo and assorted crap all over the artwork of every CD they
>>> release here, it appears their manufacturing plant doesn't have the
>>> capacity to copy-protect everything. Some examples of EMI releases that
>>> are
>>> tagged as Copy Controlled but actually aren't:
>>>
>>> Placebo - Once More With Feeling
>>> David Bridie - Hotel Radio (single)
>>
>> Could this be because David doesn't want his CD's to copy protected ?
>> He said so many times on his website.
>
> Unless he owns the copyright in the recording, which I doubt, he would have
> no say. The record company can do what they like.

He does, in fact, own the copyright in his recordings - but until the
release of the Hotel Radio album, he didn't realise how much his listeners
were against copy protection. EMI put Copy Control on the disc by default;
whether they would have left it off if Bridie asked them is something we'll
never know.

However, interesting to see that all CDs on the EMI-manufactured "Eleven"
label (including Missy Higgins) are NOT copy controlled. Methinks John
Watson has been paying attention to consumer sentiment. And hey, the lack
of copy control didn't stop Missy's album from going triple platinum...

Robbie Williams' best-of CD is also not copy controlled, presumably at his
request.

- Anthony

From:	steve
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Sat, 08 Jan 2005 12:16:29 +0100

Anthony Horan wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:47:18 GMT, Kevin V. Russell wrote:
>
>
>>"steve" wrote in message news:41DA6AA4.5020804@a.com...
>>
>>>Anthony Horan wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:16:54 +1100, DJ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have several EMI CDs with this copy protection on them and they
>>>>>play/sound fine in both stand-alone CD player and CD drive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's because it's probably not actually copy protected. While EMI put
>>>>the
>>>>Copy Control logo and assorted crap all over the artwork of every CD they
>>>>release here, it appears their manufacturing plant doesn't have the
>>>>capacity to copy-protect everything. Some examples of EMI releases that
>>>>are
>>>>tagged as Copy Controlled but actually aren't:
>>>>
>>>>Placebo - Once More With Feeling
>>>>David Bridie - Hotel Radio (single)
>>>
>>>Could this be because David doesn't want his CD's to copy protected ?
>>>He said so many times on his website.
>>
>>Unless he owns the copyright in the recording, which I doubt, he would have
>>no say. The record company can do what they like.
>
>
> He does, in fact, own the copyright in his recordings - but until the
> release of the Hotel Radio album, he didn't realise how much his listeners
> were against copy protection. EMI put Copy Control on the disc by default;
> whether they would have left it off if Bridie asked them is something we'll
> never know.

He owns the copyright in his recordings because it was in the agreement
when they dropped him.
And now they've dropped him he's on Mushroom Music Publishing.

> However, interesting to see that all CDs on the EMI-manufactured "Eleven"
> label (including Missy Higgins) are NOT copy controlled. Methinks John
> Watson has been paying attention to consumer sentiment. And hey, the lack
> of copy control didn't stop Missy's album from going triple platinum...

What about Little Birdy ?

From:	Anthony Horan
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:30:53 +1100

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 12:16:29 +0100, steve wrote:

> Anthony Horan wrote:
>
>> He does, in fact, own the copyright in his recordings - but until the
>> release of the Hotel Radio album, he didn't realise how much his listeners
>> were against copy protection. EMI put Copy Control on the disc by default;
>> whether they would have left it off if Bridie asked them is something we'll
>> never know.
>
> He owns the copyright in his recordings because it was in the agreement
> when they dropped him.

But he also got to take his label with him. There's more to this one than
your standard rip-off record deal.

> And now they've dropped him he's on Mushroom Music Publishing.

Liberation Music, actually. Mushroom Publishing have handled his song
publishing for years, but they're not a label.

>> However, interesting to see that all CDs on the EMI-manufactured "Eleven"
>> label (including Missy Higgins) are NOT copy controlled. Methinks John
>> Watson has been paying attention to consumer sentiment. And hey, the lack
>> of copy control didn't stop Missy's album from going triple platinum...
>
> What about Little Birdy ?

I don't have a copy of that one, so no idea - is it copy protected?

- Anthony

From:	Euan Troup
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	09 Jan 2005 19:18:44 GMT

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:30:53 +1100, Anthony Horan ascii'd:

>> What about Little Birdy ?
>
> I don't have a copy of that one, so no idea - is it copy protected?

No. Although it's manufactured by EMI.

Why has Virgin bothered to set up Eleven as another label anyway?

cheers,

Euan.

--
....mostly harmless.

From:	Anthony Horan
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:07:14 +1100

On 09 Jan 2005 19:18:44 GMT, Euan Troup wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:30:53 +1100, Anthony Horan ascii'd:
>
>>> What about Little Birdy ?
>>
>> I don't have a copy of that one, so no idea - is it copy protected?
>
> No. Although it's manufactured by EMI.

The theory holds, then: releases on the Eleven label aren't copy protected.

> Why has Virgin bothered to set up Eleven as another label anyway?

They didn't; former Silverchair manager John Watson set up the label
(http://www.elevenmusic.com/about.htm), with Virgin looking after promotion
and distribution. Since Virgin is owned and distributed by EMI, EMI get to
manufacture the discs - but since it's not their label, they would have to
defer to the label's wishes about copy protection, I would assume.

- Anthony

From:	corks
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:34:30 +0800

ummm my copy of once more with feeling (with bonus remix cd) is copy
protected - had to use cdex to get around it

--

cb250rs->gpx600r->xj650->fzs600->zx7r->900ss->zx636r->yzf750r->trx850

"Anthony Horan" wrote in message
news:1hati8o4cmddj.17hb53eka0z7y$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:16:54 +1100, DJ wrote:
>
> > I have several EMI CDs with this copy protection on them and they
play/sound
> > fine in both stand-alone CD player and CD drive.
>
> That's because it's probably not actually copy protected. While EMI put
the
> Copy Control logo and assorted crap all over the artwork of every CD they
> release here, it appears their manufacturing plant doesn't have the
> capacity to copy-protect everything. Some examples of EMI releases that
are
> tagged as Copy Controlled but actually aren't:
>
> Placebo - Once More With Feeling
> David Bridie - Hotel Radio (single)
> Various - West Papua: Sound Of The Morning Star
>
> I'm sure there'll be quite a few others.
>
>
> - Anthony

From:	Anthony Horan
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Fri, 7 Jan 2005 18:19:09 +1100

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:34:30 +0800, corks wrote:

> ummm my copy of once more with feeling (with bonus remix cd) is copy
> protected - had to use cdex to get around it

Was it made in Australia, or in Europe?

What's the text and code number on the inside hub of the disc say?

From:	corks
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:49:05 +0800

number on spine of label 0724386389626

on playside on cd says mediamotion 8636432 and 010201-nl

made in the eu

--

cb250rs->gpx600r->xj650->fzs600->zx7r->900ss->zx636r->yzf750r->trx850

"Anthony Horan" wrote in message
news:ufvu9xpr455q$.1cdhj5dw8x6u5$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:34:30 +0800, corks wrote:
>
> > ummm my copy of once more with feeling (with bonus remix cd) is copy
> > protected - had to use cdex to get around it
>
> Was it made in Australia, or in Europe?
>
> What's the text and code number on the inside hub of the disc say?

From:	Anthony Horan
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:38:41 +1100

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:49:05 +0800, corks wrote:

> number on spine of label 0724386389626
>
> on playside on cd says mediamotion 8636432 and 010201-nl
>
> made in the eu

The single-disc edition is also made in the EU, but the main disc carries a
different number and is not copy protected. Very odd.

Looks like those who waited and got the cheaper version got the uncorrupted
CD as well :-)

- Anthony

From:	corks
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Sun, 9 Jan 2005 23:40:53 +0800

hehe i picked up the double disc for $20 here perth , jb hifi , i was happy
the remixes cd is pretty good

--

cb250rs->gpx600r->xj650->fzs600->zx7r->900ss->zx636r->yzf750r->trx850

"Anthony Horan" wrote in message
news:129458hmxh010$.8o5hjsebzwf5.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:49:05 +0800, corks wrote:
>
> > number on spine of label 0724386389626
> >
> > on playside on cd says mediamotion 8636432 and 010201-nl
> >
> > made in the eu
>
> The single-disc edition is also made in the EU, but the main disc carries
a
> different number and is not copy protected. Very odd.
>
> Looks like those who waited and got the cheaper version got the
uncorrupted
> CD as well :-)
>
>
> - Anthony

From:	DJ
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:33:25 +1100

"Anthony Horan" wrote in message
news:1hati8o4cmddj.17hb53eka0z7y$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:16:54 +1100, DJ wrote:
>
>> I have several EMI CDs with this copy protection on them and they
>> play/sound
>> fine in both stand-alone CD player and CD drive.
>
> That's because it's probably not actually copy protected. While EMI put
> the
> Copy Control logo and assorted crap all over the artwork of every CD they
> release here, it appears their manufacturing plant doesn't have the
> capacity to copy-protect everything. Some examples of EMI releases that
> are
> tagged as Copy Controlled but actually aren't:
>
> Placebo - Once More With Feeling
> David Bridie - Hotel Radio (single)
> Various - West Papua: Sound Of The Morning Star
>
> I'm sure there'll be quite a few others.
>
>
> - Anthony

Is there any way I can determine if a CD is actually copy-controlled?

And wouldn't placing the logo on the CD be counter-productive, in terms of
sales? From reading posts here it seems it would act as a deterrent for some
people to buy the CD. (Not that I'm implying that all music marketing types
are logical people)

DJ

From:	Anthony Horan
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Fri, 7 Jan 2005 18:14:30 +1100

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:33:25 +1100, DJ wrote:

> "Anthony Horan" wrote in message
> news:1hati8o4cmddj.17hb53eka0z7y$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:16:54 +1100, DJ wrote:
>>
>>> I have several EMI CDs with this copy protection on them and they
>>> play/sound
>>> fine in both stand-alone CD player and CD drive.
>>
>> That's because it's probably not actually copy protected.
>
> Is there any way I can determine if a CD is actually copy-controlled?

Yep - just stick it in your PC's CD or DVD drive and see what comes up in
My Computer. If EMI's protection is there, you'll see a CD-ROM with the
standard files used by their Cactus system. If it is recognised by Windows
as "Audio CD", it's not protected. Copy Controlled CDs always have a data
session containing particular files, and if you try to read the disc in a
CD ripping program like Exact Audio Copy you'll notice the TOC is FUBAR :)

> And wouldn't placing the logo on the CD be counter-productive, in terms of
> sales? From reading posts here it seems it would act as a deterrent for some
> people to buy the CD.

Well, it's put me off buying at least half a dozen EMI albums. I'm sure it
has for others as well.

Latest ludicrously copy-controlled disc, by the way, is the 2003 remastered
version of Duran Duran's 2 decade-old "Seven And The Ragged Tiger". Yeah,
nice one EMI, make sure THAT doesn't leak out onto the internet :)

- Anthony

From:	Ben Downing
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:56:54 GMT

> > And wouldn't placing the logo on the CD be counter-productive, in terms
of
> > sales? From reading posts here it seems it would act as a deterrent for
some
> > people to buy the CD.
>
> Well, it's put me off buying at least half a dozen EMI albums. I'm sure it
> has for others as well.
>

same here. all my music is stored on my ipod, so i need to convert to mp3 to
play it (the only cd drive i own are my pc, xbox and dvd payer)

From:	Ian Galbraith
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:15:58 +1100

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:56:54 GMT, "Ben Downing"
wrote:

[snip]

>same here. all my music is stored on my ipod, so i need to convert to mp3 to
>play it (the only cd drive i own are my pc, xbox and dvd payer)

I've just come across it myself, on a couple of jazz cds by Jimmy
Smith of all things. For my mp3 player cdex seems to rip them ok
despite the copy protection. It seems utterly ridiculous to put it on
jazz cds.

From:	DJ
Subject:	Re: Copy protetction on EMI recordings
Date:	Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:06:37 +1100

>> Is there any way I can determine if a CD is actually copy-controlled?
>
> Yep - just stick it in your PC's CD or DVD drive and see what comes up in
> My Computer. If EMI's protection is there, you'll see a CD-ROM with the
> standard files used by their Cactus system. If it is recognised by Windows
> as "Audio CD", it's not protected. Copy Controlled CDs always have a data
> session containing particular files, and if you try to read the disc in a
> CD ripping program like Exact Audio Copy you'll notice the TOC is FUBAR :)
>
>
> - Anthony

Interesting - I put A Perfect Circle's "Emotive" into my PC and instead of
loading Media Player, a pops up message asks me to install some files in
order to listen to the CD (I didn't). However, by starting Media Player
manually and selecting the source I want to play, it plays the disc fine.

I only have CDex and it extracts tracks fine.

Thanks Anthony