1: Had a scumsucking pos serve a AVO on me, but the AVO says he is a
relative under s4[6] of the crimes act. He isn't..the closest he came is
trying to get with my wife. His complaint is that I have driven past his
residence 6 times, turning around just after passing his flat, and stated
that this must be for stalking and intimidation. I had an incident that I
lodged a complaint about concerning his workplace behaviour, and he has
changed the circumstances to make me look bad. (I have the companies reply
that has my original complaint).
My defences are going to be, I have driven up this road a few times while
looking at xmas lights, but not as many times as he has said. There are at
least 2 other cars identical to mine in the area, not to mention my daughter
also drives my car. As my story of what occured in his workplace is backed
up by written evidence and shows his version of what I supposedly complained
about is incorrect....
am I screwed, or do I have a chance..

2. Prior to the avo hearing I have a malicious damage charge for damaging
his tail lights...
any help out there....

From:	Seppo Renfors
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:36:27 GMT

extelstra wrote:
>
> 1: Had a scumsucking pos serve a AVO on me, but the AVO says he is a
> relative under s4[6] of the crimes act. He isn't..the closest he came is
> trying to get with my wife. His complaint is that I have driven past his
> residence 6 times, turning around just after passing his flat, and stated
> that this must be for stalking and intimidation. I had an incident that I
> lodged a complaint about concerning his workplace behaviour, and he has
> changed the circumstances to make me look bad. (I have the companies reply
> that has my original complaint).
> My defences are going to be, I have driven up this road a few times while
> looking at xmas lights, but not as many times as he has said. There are at
> least 2 other cars identical to mine in the area, not to mention my daughter
> also drives my car. As my story of what occured in his workplace is backed
> up by written evidence and shows his version of what I supposedly complained
> about is incorrect....
> am I screwed, or do I have a chance..

Why - do you intend to continue the stalking you have engaged in so
far?

> 2. Prior to the avo hearing I have a malicious damage charge for damaging
> his tail lights...
> any help out there....

Considering your comments elsewhere as well as here, you are guilty as
charged of "stalking and intimidation" - and guilty of smashing the
guy's tail lights as well (criminal damage). I suggest you STOP
harassing the person - but then the AVO will make it rather less
attractive as a jail term is the reward for NOT complying with it. It
sound like your Mrs has given you the marching orders - then do so and
get on with life! Don't start using your kids as ammunition (or a
shield) in your vendetta, they will not thank you for it!

--
SIR - Philosopher unauthorised
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is
misled.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

From:	jpblow at gmail.com
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:05:53 -0500

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:36:27 GMT, Seppo Renfors
wrote:

>
>
>extelstra wrote:
>>
>> 1: Had a scumsucking pos serve a AVO on me, but the AVO says he is a
>> relative under s4[6] of the crimes act. He isn't..the closest he came is
>> trying to get with my wife. His complaint is that I have driven past his
>> residence 6 times, turning around just after passing his flat, and stated
>> that this must be for stalking and intimidation. I had an incident that I
>> lodged a complaint about concerning his workplace behaviour, and he has
>> changed the circumstances to make me look bad. (I have the companies reply
>> that has my original complaint).
>> My defences are going to be, I have driven up this road a few times while
>> looking at xmas lights, but not as many times as he has said. There are at
>> least 2 other cars identical to mine in the area, not to mention my daughter
>> also drives my car. As my story of what occured in his workplace is backed
>> up by written evidence and shows his version of what I supposedly complained
>> about is incorrect....
>> am I screwed, or do I have a chance..
>
>Why - do you intend to continue the stalking you have engaged in so
>far?

Why do you keep switching between addresses when you post?

--
Just your average Joe.

From:	Seppo Renfors
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 04:02:24 GMT

jpblow@gmail.com wrote:
>
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:36:27 GMT, Seppo Renfors
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >extelstra wrote:
> >>
> >> 1: Had a scumsucking pos serve a AVO on me, but the AVO says he is a
> >> relative under s4[6] of the crimes act. He isn't..the closest he came is
> >> trying to get with my wife. His complaint is that I have driven past his
> >> residence 6 times, turning around just after passing his flat, and stated
> >> that this must be for stalking and intimidation. I had an incident that I
> >> lodged a complaint about concerning his workplace behaviour, and he has
> >> changed the circumstances to make me look bad. (I have the companies reply
> >> that has my original complaint).
> >> My defences are going to be, I have driven up this road a few times while
> >> looking at xmas lights, but not as many times as he has said. There are at
> >> least 2 other cars identical to mine in the area, not to mention my daughter
> >> also drives my car. As my story of what occured in his workplace is backed
> >> up by written evidence and shows his version of what I supposedly complained
> >> about is incorrect....
> >> am I screwed, or do I have a chance..
> >
> >Why - do you intend to continue the stalking you have engaged in so
> >far?
>
> Why do you keep switching between addresses when you post?

What the hell are you on about...... or on?

--
SIR - Philosopher unauthorised
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is
misled.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Sylvia Else
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:44:58 +1100

extelstra wrote:

> 1: Had a scumsucking pos serve a AVO on me, but the AVO says he is a
> relative under s4[6] of the crimes act. He isn't..the closest he came is
> trying to get with my wife. His complaint is that I have driven past his
> residence 6 times, turning around just after passing his flat, and stated
> that this must be for stalking and intimidation. I had an incident that I
> lodged a complaint about concerning his workplace behaviour, and he has
> changed the circumstances to make me look bad. (I have the companies reply
> that has my original complaint).
> My defences are going to be, I have driven up this road a few times while
> looking at xmas lights, but not as many times as he has said. There are at
> least 2 other cars identical to mine in the area, not to mention my daughter
> also drives my car. As my story of what occured in his workplace is backed
> up by written evidence and shows his version of what I supposedly complained
> about is incorrect....
> am I screwed, or do I have a chance..

An AVO is not a charge that you committed an offence. The worst that can
happen is that you'll be ordered to leave him alone and stay away from
him. There's no fine, or other punishment.

>
> 2. Prior to the avo hearing I have a malicious damage charge for damaging
> his tail lights...
> any help out there....

Is there any evidence? Or is it nothing more than an allegation? Don't
forget that if you defend the matter, the prosecution has to prove
you're guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

BTW, which state are you in, because it affects the law (a bit)?

Sylvia.

From:	extelstra
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:00:31 GMT

"Sylvia Else" wrote in message
news:41f3721a$0$2195$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>
> An AVO is not a charge that you committed an offence. The worst that can
> happen is that you'll be ordered to leave him alone and stay away from
> him. There's no fine, or other punishment.

I understand that, but this sick sob is likely to make stuff up saying I
breached the avo, so I don't want to give him the chance... He has smashed a
laptop my wife was using, stolen my car the wife was using, smashed it while
drunk and attacked the cops when they arrested him (dec 2003)

> Is there any evidence? Or is it nothing more than an allegation? Don't
> forget that if you defend the matter, the prosecution has to prove
> you're guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
>
> BTW, which state are you in, because it affects the law (a bit)?
>
> Sylvia.
NSW, and as for evidence, it is his word against mine...the police who
picked me up a few minutes later were unable to find the wheel brace I
allegedly used. Still deciding wether to defend the damage charge or go for
guilty with an explanation.

Michael

From:	Sylvia Else
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:29:24 +1100

extelstra wrote:

> NSW, and as for evidence, it is his word against mine...the police who
> picked me up a few minutes later were unable to find the wheel brace I
> allegedly used. Still deciding wether to defend the damage charge or go for
> guilty with an explanation.

If by that you mean you did it, but they can't prove it, I wouldn't put
much store by pleading guilty with an 'explanation'. There are no
excuses for criminal damage.

The problem with pleading not-guilty if you did it is that you can't
take the witness stand and deny it (perjury, which is a much more
serious crime that criminal damage), so there'd be his evidence that you
did it (I'm assuming he saw it), and no evidence to refute that. You'd
be found guilty.

So if you did it, please guilty, and express contrition. If you didn't
do it, plead not-guilty, take the stand, and state that you didn't. I
think you would be acquitted.

Sylvia

From:	Heretic
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 04:01:47 +1100

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:29:24 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

> extelstra wrote:
>
>> NSW, and as for evidence, it is his word against mine...the police who
>> picked me up a few minutes later were unable to find the wheel brace I
>> allegedly used. Still deciding wether to defend the damage charge or go
>> for guilty with an explanation.
>
> If by that you mean you did it, but they can't prove it, I wouldn't put
> much store by pleading guilty with an 'explanation'. There are no
> excuses for criminal damage.
>
> The problem with pleading not-guilty if you did it is that you can't
> take the witness stand and deny it (perjury, which is a much more
> serious crime that criminal damage), so there'd be his evidence that you
> did it (I'm assuming he saw it), and no evidence to refute that. You'd
> be found guilty.
>
Why would he be found guilty? He can take the witness stand and deny it.
It is then one person's word against another. The poster does not have to
refute anything. All things being equal, the prosecution will have
difficulty in proving its case beyond reasonable doubt. This depends on
the nerve of the accused, of course.

> So if you did it, please guilty, and express contrition. If you didn't
> do it, plead not-guilty, take the stand, and state that you didn't. I
> think you would be acquitted.

From:	Sylvia Else
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:13:29 +1100

Heretic wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:29:24 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

>>...you can't
>>take the witness stand and deny it (perjury ...),
>>so there'd be his evidence that you
>>did it (I'm assuming he saw it), and no evidence to refute that.
>>
>
> Why would he be found guilty? He can take the witness stand and deny it.

Er, I just said that he couldn't (see simplified form above), and gave
my reason. Do you disagree?

Sylvia.

From:	Heretic
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 04:19:02 +1100

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:13:29 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

>
> Heretic wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:29:24 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:
>
>>>...you can't
> >>take the witness stand and deny it (perjury ...), so there'd be his
> >>evidence that you
>>>did it (I'm assuming he saw it), and no evidence to refute that.
>>>
>>>
>> Why would he be found guilty? He can take the witness stand and deny
>> it.
>
> Er, I just said that he couldn't (see simplified form above), and gave
> my reason. Do you disagree?

I disagree that he can't do what you say he can't. He can. My point is
that people are free to make their own choices, and wear any consequences,
but they need to know what they are first.

From:	Sylvia Else
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:15:44 +1100

Heretic wrote:

> I disagree that he can't do what you say he can't. He can.

OK - there's nothing that will physically prevent him. It is unlawful,
however.

> My point is
> that people are free to make their own choices, and wear any consequences,
> but they need to know what they are first.

Sylvia.

From:	extelstra
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:32:24 GMT

> So if you did it, please guilty, and express contrition.
> Sylvia
That is more than likely what I will end up doing.. I can produce evidence
that he provoked the confrontation, so hopefully that will help.

I would plead not guilty and fight it to the end, but as I may be starting a
new job out of town, I won't be able to afford the time.

From:	Full
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:58:03 +1100

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:00:31 GMT, "extelstra" wrote:

>
>"Sylvia Else" wrote in message
>news:41f3721a$0$2195$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>
>>
>> An AVO is not a charge that you committed an offence. The worst that can
>> happen is that you'll be ordered to leave him alone and stay away from
>> him. There's no fine, or other punishment.
True but read on.
>
>I understand that, but this sick sob is likely to make stuff up saying I
>breached the avo, so I don't want to give him the chance...

100% right.
He only needs to complain to the Police and they are required to act.
Acting on this complaint is not the police giving you a phone call and
having a nice chat.
This is how it will work:

They will:
Stop you most likely of a night.
Tell you of the complaint.
They may allow you the option to come to the Police station but most
likly they will arrest you and convey you to the Police station.
Either way once at the Police station you are arrested.

They are require to search you.
You must hand over you property such as wallet, money, keys and phone.
(If you know you are going to be arrested its better to leave these in
a safe place
rather than hand them tot he police.)
You then wait 30 to 60 minutes in the cells with who ever else they
have at the station at the
time while they have a cuppa.

After an hour or so they will interview you.
They will not ask clear and direct questions and they will not make it
easy.
You are seated at a desk facing a camera at the other end of the desk
while the police are on
either side of the desk.
If you are lucky you will be able to convince them that the complaint
is baseless.
Their goodbye words will be comforting.
"We have decided not to act on this complaint at this time."

> He has smashed a
>laptop my wife was using, stolen my car the wife was using, smashed it while
>drunk and attacked the cops when they arrested him (dec 2003)
>
>
>> Is there any evidence? Or is it nothing more than an allegation? Don't
>> forget that if you defend the matter, the prosecution has to prove
>> you're guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
>>
>> BTW, which state are you in, because it affects the law (a bit)?
>>
>> Sylvia.
>NSW, and as for evidence, it is his word against mine...the police who
>picked me up a few minutes later were unable to find the wheel brace I
>allegedly used. Still deciding wether to defend the damage charge or go for
>guilty with an explanation.
>
>Michael
>
I can't help but get the feeling that there is much more here than you
are saying. Yet that said this PVO is the concern.

If you defend and these are raised you should remember that you are
defending the complaint and so you are not prepared to look at
unmentioned items.

Where as if your defence is saying it is him and not you who is the
aggressor then its reasonable to introduce the behaviour of him.

You are not required to have legal representation but if you go to
court unrepresented you are making life hard for your self as the
court wont allow you any flexibility to argue points of law such as
you are not relation. Where as legal representation could use this?

A problem generated by a AVO/PVO.

If the defendant is not an aggressive person before the AVO, then
during it he will be.

For you.
What ever you do. Don't be tempted into doing it to him.
You have already said he has show aggression to you and your family.

Defend yourself and then get him out of your life.

Bye Warren

From:	extelstra
Subject:	Re: 2 questions
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:29:37 GMT

> Defend yourself and then get him out of your life.
>
> Bye Warren
>
I intend to.. I thought he was gone after he stole the car, but then found
he was back.... and still causing me issues..