Ned, ok, I've done a few replies to idiots that have crossposted to
a.c.t-b and they weren't relevant to the group, but I've done my best to
remove the group when the shit wasn't relevant (shit, I'm a pisshead as
you well know, and sometimes (most times maybe) hit reply without giving
a shit or thinking about where the reply is going to), but in this case
I reckon it is relevant to that group.

I reckon we should be proud of what we've got as fucked up as much of it
may seem. The whole point of being proud of this country and being
true-blue in my opinion.

Ned Latham wrote:
> "Hunter1" wrote in <41d35c70$1@funnel.arach.net.au>:
>
> Nothing relevant to act-b.
>
> ----snip----
>
> Ned

From:	Ned Latham
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	4 Jan 2005 00:44:22 +1050

"Hunter1" wrote in <41d5d00f$1@funnel.arach.net.au>:
>
> Ned, ok, I've done a few replies to idiots that have crossposted to
> a.c.t-b and they weren't relevant to the group, but I've done my best
> to remove the group when the shit wasn't relevant (shit, I'm a pisshead
> as you well know, and sometimes (most times maybe) hit reply without
> giving a shit or thinking about where the reply is going to), but in
> this case I reckon it is relevant to that group.

On looking at it again, with your opinion of it in mind, I can read
between the lines and see some relevance to True Blue, but it's not
as readily apparent as you imply. The post's about our society and
our politics rather than any of our cultures.

But under "normal" circumstances I wouldn't have treated it the way I
did, and I apologize.

(The present abnormality is the heavy upsurge beginning about three weeks
ago of irrelevant posts into the group, arranged by the lunatic to cover
his absence.)

> I reckon we should be proud of what we've got as fucked up as much of
> it may seem. The whole point of being proud of this country and being
> true-blue in my opinion.

I make (and I try to impress on people) a careful distinction between
"true blue" and "True Blue". The former has many meanings: genuine, fair
dinkum, truthful, loyal, and so on; the latter means only one thing:
the culture that is the charter topic of act-b. The distinction is
explained more fully in Section 4.1 of the FAQ.

----snip----

Ned
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From:	Hunter1
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Wed, 05 Jan 2005 01:18:14 +0800

Ned Latham wrote:
> "Hunter1" wrote in <41d5d00f$1@funnel.arach.net.au>:
>
>>Ned, ok, I've done a few replies to idiots that have crossposted to
>>a.c.t-b and they weren't relevant to the group, but I've done my best
>>to remove the group when the shit wasn't relevant (shit, I'm a pisshead
>>as you well know, and sometimes (most times maybe) hit reply without
>>giving a shit or thinking about where the reply is going to), but in
>>this case I reckon it is relevant to that group.
>
> On looking at it again, with your opinion of it in mind, I can read
> between the lines and see some relevance to True Blue, but it's not
> as readily apparent as you imply. The post's about our society and
> our politics rather than any of our cultures.

Would agree being a tad more sober now (more sober than a> the original
post, and b> my reply to you chopping it, hey it was the fucking
Xmas/New Years period, I don't remember many days in between!). But the
problem is culture/society/politics are all entwined, and the line
becomes very fine.

The reason I thought this post was relevant was I made a point (albeit
to do with our current political structure) that we as Aussies should be
fucking proud of and occurs no-where else (at least that I know of) in
the world. To me we should be proud of that not just as a society, but
as the True-Blue culture that many of us (not enough though) are a
member of.

And that culture is seen again as different by many of us,
(membership, rules, blahblahblah), but at the end of the day it all
comes back to mateship and looking after your own, and that is exactly
the point of the stuff I was saying, we are one of the few countries
that do, no matter what.

Even if we take it too far, and should kick the bastards who milk it
up the arse (and I've posted many a time to shearman about the fact we
should force the fuckers to earn their living).

Well I think I've just exhausted my soapbox. Back to the beer where it's
safe.

> But under "normal" circumstances I wouldn't have treated it the way I
> did, and I apologize.
>
> (The present abnormality is the heavy upsurge beginning about three weeks
> ago of irrelevant posts into the group, arranged by the lunatic to cover
> his absence.)

Was wondering about the upsurge myself, poita I'm guessing is on school
holidays (tends to be when he disappears) and che??? Wouldn't have been
absent since a recent set of arrests would he?

> I make (and I try to impress on people) a careful distinction between
> "true blue" and "True Blue". The former has many meanings: genuine, fair
> dinkum, truthful, loyal, and so on; the latter means only one thing:
> the culture that is the charter topic of act-b. The distinction is
> explained more fully in Section 4.1 of the FAQ.

Not much of a reader, more of a drinker, so I'll probly crosspost again
where it seems appropriate (and much more often where it's not but I
forget to take out the group from some dickhead's crossposting, but at
least I try to remove a.c.t-b from that shit), hey, at least I'm honest!

From:	Ned Latham
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	5 Jan 2005 13:59:48 +1050

"Hunter1" wrote in <41dacfe0@funnel.arach.net.au>:

----snip----

> The reason I thought this post was relevant was I made a point (albeit
> to do with our current political structure) that we as Aussies should be
> fucking proud of and occurs no-where else (at least that I know of) in
> the world.

Our culture (True Blue)? King oath. It's absolutely unique, and *well*
worth being proud of for its achievements.

But not our political system. It's not ours, for one thing.

> To me we should be proud of that not just as a society, but
> as the True-Blue culture that many of us (not enough though) are a
> member of.

Yair. Sad, that. Too much PC-think.

> And that culture is seen again as different by many of us,
> (membership, rules, blahblahblah), but at the end of the day it all
> comes back to mateship and looking after your own, and that is exactly
> the point of the stuff I was saying, we are one of the few countries
> that do, no matter what.
>
> Even if we take it too far, and should kick the bastards who milk it
> up the arse (and I've posted many a time to shearman about the fact we
> should force the fuckers to earn their living).

I think there's a genuine problem there. The pollies (as usual) have made
the rules they force the public servants to use very complex and difficult
to apply to any but routine cases. So there are loopholes everywhere for
bludgers to slip through.

I think the pollies do that sort of shit deliberately.

----snip----

> > (The present abnormality is the heavy upsurge beginning about three weeks
> > ago of irrelevant posts into the group, arranged by the lunatic to cover
> > his absence.)
>
> Was wondering about the upsurge myself, poita I'm guessing is on school
> holidays (tends to be when he disappears) and che??? Wouldn't have been
> absent since a recent set of arrests would he?

LOL.

----snip----

Ned
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From:	Hunter1
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sat, 08 Jan 2005 00:25:01 +0800

Ned Latham wrote:
> Our culture (True Blue)? King oath. It's absolutely unique, and *well*
> worth being proud of for its achievements.

Agreed, for a minimal population we've made some pretty fucking major
achievements, and it's purely due to our culture and drive.

> But not our political system. It's not ours, for one thing.

Not really talking about our political system, more the fact that our
system of looking after people stems from the True-Blue attitude of
looking after the underdog and looking after your mates. We're one of
the only countries in the world where no-one goes without, and no-one
really needs to do it hard.

> Yair. Sad, that. Too much PC-think.

And only recently has there been a backlash against that in politics,
and I still put that down to the massive vote ON got in its' first
federal run. The Chardonnay set had no choice but to sit up and listen,
and for all the shit they copped it's funny that their ideas are now
becoming a reality, what happened to ATSIC for instance?

> I think there's a genuine problem there. The pollies (as usual) have made
> the rules they force the public servants to use very complex and difficult
> to apply to any but routine cases.

That's across the board, work for the govt in education (in IT support,
not one of the lecturing mob) and the same is true there, more money is
spent in following the rules than is spent in getting anything done.

> So there are loopholes everywhere for
> bludgers to slip through.

Sad but true, I still reckon the real solution is to make them work for
the money they get. A fair wage for fair work. Say they get 400 a
fortnight??? Make them work the hours you'd work on minimum wage to get
that 400. I've been on the dole a few times between jobs, and I wouldn't
have had a problem with that.

You're talking a few days work a fortnight, and at least you'd feel like
you weren't a bludger, that you'd earned that money. And for the real
bludgers it'd be a bloody incentive for them to get off their arses and
get a real job.

But then there's that damn PC thing in the way again. One of the
attitudes I consider to be a part of True Blue culture is earning your
own way, if you take a handout in times of need make sure you always
come good on it when you can afford to, and this would be a way to make
sure of that.

> I think the pollies do that sort of shit deliberately.

I'm sure labor especially do, they must take the majority of the dole
bludger vote in every election.

From:	Stan Pierce
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 22:23:46 GMT

"Hunter1" wrote in message
news:41deb7df$1@funnel.arach.net.au...
> Ned Latham wrote:
(snipped)
>> Our culture (True Blue)? King oath. It's absolutely unique, and *well*
>> worth being proud of for its achievements.

.. >One of the
> attitudes I consider to be a part of True Blue culture is earning your own
> way, if you take a handout in times of need make sure you always come good
> on it when you can afford to,

Do you think that pre 1970s True Blue attitude would still include Muslims
or any other group into the Australian fold. I ask this seriously because I
don't think mateship goes outside of a group that has not endured some
calamity that binds them. Then also, I think the memory of that calamity
is the jelling force. Without memory there is no contact with the past.
Book knowledge of the past is only words on paper. Written words can induce
emotions but it is not the same as actually having experienced something
together.

From:	Ned Latham
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	8 Jan 2005 13:29:13 +1050

Stan Pierce wrote in :
> "Hunter1" wrote:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> (snipped)
> > > Our culture (True Blue)? King oath. It's absolutely unique, and *well*
> > > worth being proud of for its achievements.
> >
> > One of the attitudes I consider to be a part of True Blue culture is
> > earning your own way, if you take a handout in times of need make sure
> > you always come good on it when you can afford to,
>
> Do you think that pre 1970s True Blue attitude would still include Muslims
> or any other group into the Australian fold. I ask this seriously because I
> don't think mateship goes outside of a group that has not endured some
> calamity that binds them. Then also, I think the memory of that calamity
> is the jelling force. Without memory there is no contact with the past.
> Book knowledge of the past is only words on paper. Written words can induce
> emotions but it is not the same as actually having experienced something
> together.

There've been Moslems in Oz since the Overland Telegraph, and they seem
to have assimilated okay. I don't see why someone who knew them wouldn't
see them as True Blues merely on account of their religion.

Of course, the multyculty madness *has* changed thingsi since those days.

Ned
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From:	Hunter1
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:02:20 +0800

Stan Pierce wrote:
> "Hunter1" wrote in message
> news:41deb7df$1@funnel.arach.net.au...
>>Ned Latham wrote:
>>>Our culture (True Blue)? King oath. It's absolutely unique, and *well*
>>>worth being proud of for its achievements.
>
>>One of the
>>attitudes I consider to be a part of True Blue culture is earning your own
>>way, if you take a handout in times of need make sure you always come good
>>on it when you can afford to,
>
> Do you think that pre 1970s True Blue attitude would still include Muslims
> or any other group into the Australian fold.

Muslim's were in the Australian fold long before the 1970s, providing
people want to fit in with us Aussies, and become a part of our culture,
they are accepted as mates, regardless of religion.

> I ask this seriously because I
> don't think mateship goes outside of a group that has not endured some
> calamity that binds them.

Most living Australians have never been through such a calamity (or
indeed anything really hard at all) but there are exception such as many
small scale disasters, Vietnam, etc., and probably wont ever go through
one. I'd hate to think that Aussie values will die due to that, and I
doubt that they will. In a way though I partially agree with you, I
think the strength of mateship is reinforced by endurance of hard times,
during which the value is re-asserted, but as time goes by and
generation passes generation the strength fades.

I look at my generation and then look at the one coming through now and
there's a bloody big difference, the loyalty and mateship doesn't seem
to be there with the new breed, at least not to the extent it was with
my generation. But then I never went through any long period of anything
that could be called a calamity either, I'm guessing the WWII generation
probly looks at all of us and reckons none of us really understand the
true meaning of mateship as compared to them either.

> Then also, I think the memory of that calamity
> is the jelling force. Without memory there is no contact with the past.
> Book knowledge of the past is only words on paper. Written words can induce
> emotions but it is not the same as actually having experienced something
> together.

Would agree with you entirely there. I wouldn't wish bad times on
anyone, but I agree that they really reinforce the values of mateship,
and also are the litmus test for which people really are mates and which
are only there in times of convenience.

From:	ferdie
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:40:23 +1100

NO!

"Stan Pierce" wrote in message
news:SZDDd.108825$K7.763@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> Do you think that pre 1970s True Blue attitude would still include Muslims
> into the Australian fold.

From:	Hunter1
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sun, 09 Jan 2005 08:23:40 +0800

Not exactly a surprising response from yourself Ferdie, now it just
remains for Petzl to back you up.

ferdie wrote:
> NO!
>
> "Stan Pierce" wrote in message
> news:SZDDd.108825$K7.763@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>>Do you think that pre 1970s True Blue attitude would still include Muslims
>>into the Australian fold.

From:	Ned Latham
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	10 Jan 2005 13:19:22 +1050

"Hunter1" wrote in <41e07990@funnel.arach.net.au>:

Nothing relevant to act-b.

----snip----

Ned
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From:	ferdie
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sun, 9 Jan 2005 17:00:31 +1100

Modify and ask that same question in any muslim country - see how you go

"Hunter1" wrote in message
news:41e07990@funnel.arach.net.au...
> Not exactly a surprising response from yourself Ferdie, now it just
> remains for Petzl to back you up.
>
>
> ferdie wrote:
>> NO!
>>
>> "Stan Pierce" wrote in message
>> news:SZDDd.108825$K7.763@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>>>Do you think that pre 1970s True Blue attitude would still include
>>>Muslims into the Australian fold.

From:	Ned Latham
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	10 Jan 2005 13:22:28 +1050

"ferdie" wrote in :

Nothing relevant to act-b.

Piss off, troll.

----snip----

Ned
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From:	Hunter1
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:01:14 +0800

Lets try Indonesia maybe, I can think of a number of parts of Indonesia
where Australians have been living for a long time and also quite
happily sink into the community. And that'd be the biggest Muslim
country on this planet population-wise, good enough example?

There's shitheads in every religion, and every country, selective
targeting like you're doing makes you no better than those you criticise.

ferdie wrote:
> Modify and ask that same question in any muslim country - see how you go
>
> "Hunter1" wrote in message
> news:41e07990@funnel.arach.net.au...
>
>>Not exactly a surprising response from yourself Ferdie, now it just
>>remains for Petzl to back you up.
>>
>>
>>ferdie wrote:
>>
>>>NO!
>>>
>>>"Stan Pierce" wrote in message
>>>news:SZDDd.108825$K7.763@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Do you think that pre 1970s True Blue attitude would still include
>>>>Muslims into the Australian fold.
>
>
>

From:	ferdie
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:45:08 +1100

The question WAS - Modify and ask that same question in any muslim country -
see how you go

"Hunter1" wrote in message
news:41e1a9ae$1@funnel.arach.net.au...
> Lets try Indonesia maybe, I can think of a number of parts of Indonesia
> where Australians have been living for a long time and also quite happily
> sink into the community.

From:	ferdie
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:49:28 +1100

I've lived there myself - Foreigners are tolerated, but never accepted as
equals.
Good example is deadline for the goody2shoes to leave Sumatra.

"ferdie" wrote in message
news:%qIHd.297$K36.3192@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> The question WAS - Modify and ask that same question in any muslim
> country - see how you go
>
>
> "Hunter1" wrote in message
> news:41e1a9ae$1@funnel.arach.net.au...
>> Lets try Indonesia maybe, I can think of a number of parts of Indonesia
>> where Australians have been living for a long time and also quite happily
>> sink into the community.
>
>

From:	Rifty
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:06:30 +1100

Hunter1 wrote:

> There's shitheads in every religion, and every country, selective
> targeting like you're doing makes you no better than those you criticise.

Amen to that! The people who are not worth debating with are those who
make grand statements of criticism about any particular religion or
people. Their minds are closed. And they exist everywhere too. You won't
budge them any more than they will convince you. There are some splendid
examples of that in this newsgroup.

Rifty
--
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http://rifty.net

From:	Ned Latham
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	13 Jan 2005 07:01:45 +1050

"Rifty" wrote in <1gq6c9l.1c62r4o1d7odfkN%rifty@tpg.com.au>:

Nothing relevant to act-b.

----snip----

Ned
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From:	Hunter1
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:23:56 +0800

Rifty wrote:
> Hunter1 wrote:
>
>
>>There's shitheads in every religion, and every country, selective
>>targeting like you're doing makes you no better than those you criticise.
>
>
> Amen to that! The people who are not worth debating with are those who
> make grand statements of criticism about any particular religion or
> people. Their minds are closed. And they exist everywhere too. You won't
> budge them any more than they will convince you. There are some splendid
> examples of that in this newsgroup.

You're not wrong, quite a few around, I'm glad to say the majority as
far as these news-groups go at least seem to be posting from India, not
from here, so that gives Oz some hope.

From:	Heretic
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:27:20 -0500

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:23:56 +0800, Hunter1 wrote:

>
>
>
> You're not wrong, quite a few around, I'm glad to say the majority as
> far as these news-groups go at least seem to be posting from India, not
> from here, so that gives Oz some hope.

But you are completely hopeless. Back under your rock, Gary.

From:	Kelvin Kabrank
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:47:24 +1000

Surely left handiness is as natural as homouality.

KK

From:	Hunter1
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:37:05 +0800

Heretic wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:23:56 +0800, Hunter1 wrote:
>>
>>You're not wrong, quite a few around, I'm glad to say the majority as
>>far as these news-groups go at least seem to be posting from India, not
>>from here, so that gives Oz some hope.
>
> But you are completely hopeless. Back under your rock, Gary.

Yawnnnnnn.... Who let you limp-wristed woman haters back out of your
cage Gary????

From:	Ned Latham
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	10 Jan 2005 13:30:25 +1050

"Hunter1" wrote in <41e1a9ae$1@funnel.arach.net.au>:

Nothing relevant to act-b.

----snip----

Ned
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From:	ferdie
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	Sun, 9 Jan 2005 16:58:38 +1100

no worries

"Hunter1" wrote in message
news:41e07990@funnel.arach.net.au...
> Not exactly a surprising response from yourself Ferdie, now it just
> remains for Petzl to back you up.
>
>
> ferdie wrote:
>> NO!

From:	Ned Latham
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	10 Jan 2005 13:22:02 +1050

"ferdie" wrote in <0K3Ed.433$Sa7.22626@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>:

Nothing relevant to act-b.

Piss off, troll.

----snip----

Ned
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From:	Ned Latham
Subject:	Re: Overcoming Leftism: A 12-Step Program
Date:	10 Jan 2005 13:18:21 +1050

"ferdie" wrote in :

Nothiing relevant to act-b.

Piss off, troll.

----snip----

Ned
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