"jg" wrote in message
news:4V8ld.33825$K7.3534@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Jonathan Wilson" wrote in message
> news:4194c56c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>> Thankfully the government is willing to entertain moves to deregulate
>> trading hours in WA, even if all they are doing is holding a refferendum.
>> I for one will be voting "YES" to deregulation :)
>>
>> Anyone else got any thoughts? (e.g. reasons why they would be negatively
>> affected by deregulation, experiences of deregulation in the eastern
> states
>> etc etc)

All my family lives in the West. They are envious of the East's trading
hours, and generally regard the West as being behind the rest of the country
in this single respect.. Apparently 9pm closing is coming to Rocky soon.

Extended trading hours was a hard fought battle by small traders. Frank
Penhallurick should have gotten a gong for starting the ball rolling,
instead he did a stretch in Pentridge, but he won in the end.

From:	jg
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:11:20 GMT

"Walter Plinge" wrote in message
news:41ac02c7$0$24377$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >
> > "Jonathan Wilson" wrote in message
> > news:4194c56c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> >> Thankfully the government is willing to entertain moves to deregulate
> >> trading hours in WA, even if all they are doing is holding a
refferendum.
> >> I for one will be voting "YES" to deregulation :)
> >>
> >> Anyone else got any thoughts? (e.g. reasons why they would be
negatively
> >> affected by deregulation, experiences of deregulation in the eastern
> > states
> >> etc etc)
>
> All my family lives in the West. They are envious of the East's trading
> hours, and generally regard the West as being behind the rest of the
country
> in this single respect.. Apparently 9pm closing is coming to Rocky soon.
>
> Extended trading hours was a hard fought battle by small traders. Frank
> Penhallurick should have gotten a gong for starting the ball rolling,
> instead he did a stretch in Pentridge, but he won in the end.
>
That proves that your family likes extended trading hours, not that it's a
clever idea financially or socially. Plenty would support it, that's not the
point. Rockingham has had extended trading for some years by virtue of its
tourist precinct status.

From:	Chris McDonald
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:30:08 +0000 (UTC)

"Walter Plinge" writes:

>All my family lives in the West. They are envious of the East's trading
>hours, and generally regard the West as being behind the rest of the country
>in this single respect.. Apparently 9pm closing is coming to Rocky soon.

Do any of your family out West own a corner deli within driving distance
of a Coles or Woolies? How many hours per week do they work now, and how
many extra are they willing to work to save their business?

--
Chris,

From:	Walter Plinge
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:30:40 +1100

"Chris McDonald" wrote in message
news:coh0h0$trl$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
> "Walter Plinge" writes:
>
>>All my family lives in the West. They are envious of the East's trading
>>hours, and generally regard the West as being behind the rest of the
>>country
>>in this single respect.. Apparently 9pm closing is coming to Rocky soon.
>
>
> Do any of your family out West own a corner deli within driving distance
> of a Coles or Woolies? How many hours per week do they work now, and how
> many extra are they willing to work to save their business?

The number of hours worked won't be a problem because they will go under
within 2 years of extended trading starting. Under extended trading there
will be wholesale closures of small shops likes this. I recall roughly half
the traditional milk bars in Victoria closed when extended trading came in.
For areas where there is no major supermarket close by, e.g., the CBD, Coles
Express and similar 24-hour mini-marts will finish them off.

The West's anachronistic maintenance of early 20th century trading
arrangements is delightfully quaint and flies in the face of consumer
demands. The Canutes in power can't hold off the tide of progress much
longer. Ordinary folk in the West want extended trading hours and will get
them sooner rather than later. Like Victoria and its rebel hardware traders,
a group of rebels in the West will arise and force the Government's hand.

The rest of Australia has had extended trading for 20 years. Just shows how
old-fashioned the West is.

From:	jg
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:53:21 GMT

"Walter Plinge" wrote in message
news:41acd871$0$24377$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> "Chris McDonald" wrote in message
> news:coh0h0$trl$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
> > "Walter Plinge" writes:
> >
> >>All my family lives in the West. They are envious of the East's trading
> >>hours, and generally regard the West as being behind the rest of the
> >>country
> >>in this single respect.. Apparently 9pm closing is coming to Rocky
soon.
> >
> >
> > Do any of your family out West own a corner deli within driving distance
> > of a Coles or Woolies? How many hours per week do they work now, and
how
> > many extra are they willing to work to save their business?
>
> The number of hours worked won't be a problem because they will go under
> within 2 years of extended trading starting. Under extended trading there
> will be wholesale closures of small shops likes this. I recall roughly
half
> the traditional milk bars in Victoria closed when extended trading came
in.
> For areas where there is no major supermarket close by, e.g., the CBD,
Coles
> Express and similar 24-hour mini-marts will finish them off.
>
> The West's anachronistic maintenance of early 20th century trading
> arrangements is delightfully quaint and flies in the face of consumer
> demands. The Canutes in power can't hold off the tide of progress much
> longer. Ordinary folk in the West want extended trading hours and will get
> them sooner rather than later. Like Victoria and its rebel hardware
traders,
> a group of rebels in the West will arise and force the Government's hand.
>
> The rest of Australia has had extended trading for 20 years. Just shows
how
> old-fashioned the West is.
>
Are you saying it doesn't matter that small traders will go under or it's
stupid or futile to keep them alive? Is it old fashioned to have not
completely succumed to the sleazy trade practices of the Westfields & Coles
of the world? Actually 24hr delis are marginal here - there are few and some
have reduced their hours presumably because they just don't get the turnover
to make it worthwhile.

From:	Chris McDonald
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:50:09 +0000 (UTC)

"Walter Plinge" writes:

>The West's anachronistic maintenance of early 20th century trading
>arrangements is delightfully quaint and flies in the face of consumer
>demands. The Canutes in power can't hold off the tide of progress much
>longer. Ordinary folk in the West want extended trading hours and will get
>them sooner rather than later. Like Victoria and its rebel hardware traders,
>a group of rebels in the West will arise and force the Government's hand.

>The rest of Australia has had extended trading for 20 years. Just shows how
>old-fashioned the West is.

You use 'quaint' as if it's a bad thing, and 'extended trading' as
if it's progressive and fashionable. All wrong.

One of the remaining benefits of the West is that it's not like the rest
of Australia. Sadly, the West will destruct to become like the rest
of Australia, and then Australia destruct to become the United States.
Why not cut out a step and just give Walmart and Home Depots trading licences?

--
Chris,

From:	jg
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:54:39 GMT

"Chris McDonald" wrote in message
news:coipuh$qab$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
> "Walter Plinge" writes:
>
> >The West's anachronistic maintenance of early 20th century trading
> >arrangements is delightfully quaint and flies in the face of consumer
> >demands. The Canutes in power can't hold off the tide of progress much
> >longer. Ordinary folk in the West want extended trading hours and will
get
> >them sooner rather than later. Like Victoria and its rebel hardware
traders,
> >a group of rebels in the West will arise and force the Government's hand.
>
> >The rest of Australia has had extended trading for 20 years. Just shows
how
> >old-fashioned the West is.
>
>
> You use 'quaint' as if it's a bad thing, and 'extended trading' as
> if it's progressive and fashionable. All wrong.
>
> One of the remaining benefits of the West is that it's not like the rest
> of Australia. Sadly, the West will destruct to become like the rest
> of Australia, and then Australia destruct to become the United States.
> Why not cut out a step and just give Walmart and Home Depots trading
licences?
>
"Kmart sucks".... Rainman

From:	Walter Plinge
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:13:49 +1100

Walmart and Home Depot don't require "trading licences" (whatever they are)
to operate in Austtralia. They are welcome to open up here if they reckon
they can make a buck. I wish they would - they sound like excellent stores
from anything I've read.

All this kerfufflle at the West's anachronistic 19th century trading hours
is pointless. Sooner rather than later the West is going to dragged kicking
and screaming into the late 20th century, circa 1996.

And it won't happen because the Government want to. It will happen as it did
in Victoria: 'rebel' small traders will force the issue. The Government will
be forced to gaol considerable numbers of small businessmen of cave in. It
will cave in.

Anyway, haven't some furniture retailers already done this in the West?

The West is so far behind the rest Australia. They've only fairly recently
got Bunnings megastores, when we've had them for 10 years. And Bunnings is a
WA-based company. Seems to not much lot faith in its home state.

WP

"jg" wrote in message
news:3L7rd.54024$K7.40442@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Chris McDonald" wrote in message
> news:coipuh$qab$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
>> "Walter Plinge" writes:
>>
>> >The West's anachronistic maintenance of early 20th century trading
>> >arrangements is delightfully quaint and flies in the face of consumer
>> >demands. The Canutes in power can't hold off the tide of progress much
>> >longer. Ordinary folk in the West want extended trading hours and will
> get
>> >them sooner rather than later. Like Victoria and its rebel hardware
> traders,
>> >a group of rebels in the West will arise and force the Government's
>> >hand.
>>
>> >The rest of Australia has had extended trading for 20 years. Just shows
> how
>> >old-fashioned the West is.
>>
>>
>> You use 'quaint' as if it's a bad thing, and 'extended trading' as
>> if it's progressive and fashionable. All wrong.
>>
>> One of the remaining benefits of the West is that it's not like the rest
>> of Australia. Sadly, the West will destruct to become like the rest
>> of Australia, and then Australia destruct to become the United States.
>> Why not cut out a step and just give Walmart and Home Depots trading
> licences?
>>
> "Kmart sucks".... Rainman
>
>

From:	Chris McDonald
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:47:14 +0000 (UTC)

"Walter Plinge" writes:

>Walmart and Home Depot don't require "trading licences" (whatever they are)
>to operate in Austtralia. They are welcome to open up here if they reckon
>they can make a buck. I wish they would - they sound like excellent stores
>from anything I've read.

Go wild: http://www.davelippman.com/walmart/whyihatewalmart.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html
ihttp://www.walmartwatch.com/

And then look up what a trading licence is.

>All this kerfufflle at the West's anachronistic 19th century trading hours
>is pointless. Sooner rather than later the West is going to dragged kicking
>and screaming into the late 20th century, circa 1996.

Agreed; but to their detriment.

Consumers have finite money to spend, extended trading hours require
additional electricity for lighting and airconditioning, costs can
only rise. You don't think this has already happened in the mighty East?

______________________________________________________________________________
Dr Chris McDonald E: chris@csse.uwa.edu.au
Computer Science & Software Engineering W: http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~chris
The University of Western Australia, M002 T: +618 6488 2533
Crawley, Western Australia, 6009 F: +618 6488 1089

From:	Walter Plinge
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:12:53 +1100

"Chris McDonald" wrote in message
news:cp93ei$e6v$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
> "Walter Plinge" writes:
>
>>Walmart and Home Depot don't require "trading licences" (whatever they
>>are)
>>to operate in Austtralia. They are welcome to open up here if they reckon
>>they can make a buck. I wish they would - they sound like excellent
>>stores
>>from anything I've read.
>
> Go wild: http://www.davelippman.com/walmart/whyihatewalmart.html
> http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html
> ihttp://www.walmartwatch.com/
>
> And then look up what a trading licence is.
>
>
>>All this kerfufflle at the West's anachronistic 19th century trading hours
>>is pointless. Sooner rather than later the West is going to dragged
>>kicking
>>and screaming into the late 20th century, circa 1996.
>
> Agreed; but to their detriment.
>
> Consumers have finite money to spend, extended trading hours require
> additional electricity for lighting and airconditioning, costs can
> only rise. You don't think this has already happened in the mighty East?

Actually, no. This is an extremely competitive market, made even more so
when Aldi started developing greenfield sites. I don't think Aldi has opened
in the West as yet. As it happens Aldi doesn't operate extended hours. It
is so competitive that there are two suburbs in Melbourne where Safeway has
two stores within a block or two. They keep them operating to prevent a
competitor getting one of the sites. Sites suitable for large supermarkets
are a rare as hen's teeth and highly sought after.

When my brother visits from the West he is alway disgusted to find he can
buy Margaret River/Swan Valley wines significantly cheaper here than he can
in Rockingham.

Before my son got his licence I collected him from the local Coles when it
closed at midnight. There is a steady stream of customers between 10pm and
12am - some of them doing a full shop. The demand is there.

From:	jg
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:46:30 GMT

"Walter Plinge" wrote in message
news:41c6a5aa$0$4539$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Chris McDonald" wrote in message
> news:cp93ei$e6v$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
> > "Walter Plinge" writes:
> >
> >>Walmart and Home Depot don't require "trading licences" (whatever they
> >>are)
> >>to operate in Austtralia. They are welcome to open up here if they
reckon
> >>they can make a buck. I wish they would - they sound like excellent
> >>stores
> >>from anything I've read.
> >
> > Go wild: http://www.davelippman.com/walmart/whyihatewalmart.html
> > http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html
> > ihttp://www.walmartwatch.com/
> >
> > And then look up what a trading licence is.
> >
> >
> >>All this kerfufflle at the West's anachronistic 19th century trading
hours
> >>is pointless. Sooner rather than later the West is going to dragged
> >>kicking
> >>and screaming into the late 20th century, circa 1996.
> >
> > Agreed; but to their detriment.
> >
> > Consumers have finite money to spend, extended trading hours require
> > additional electricity for lighting and airconditioning, costs can
> > only rise. You don't think this has already happened in the mighty
East?
>
> Actually, no. This is an extremely competitive market, made even more so
> when Aldi started developing greenfield sites. I don't think Aldi has
opened
> in the West as yet. As it happens Aldi doesn't operate extended hours. It
> is so competitive that there are two suburbs in Melbourne where Safeway
has
> two stores within a block or two. They keep them operating to prevent a
> competitor getting one of the sites. Sites suitable for large supermarkets
> are a rare as hen's teeth and highly sought after.
>
So there's a fair chance if it is introduced some won't open late anyway?
That's a good example of how the biggies operate - they aren't there to make
life nice, they'd destroy the competition and open 1 hour a day if they
could. I'm not sure about the difference in wine price, how did Brown Bros
etc stack up? Was that the cheapest price in Perth?

From:	Chris McDonald
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:28:07 +0000 (UTC)

"Walter Plinge" writes:

>Actually, no. This is an extremely competitive market, made even more so
>when Aldi started developing greenfield sites. I don't think Aldi has opened
>in the West as yet. As it happens Aldi doesn't operate extended hours. It
>is so competitive that there are two suburbs in Melbourne where Safeway has
>two stores within a block or two. They keep them operating to prevent a
>competitor getting one of the sites. Sites suitable for large supermarkets
>are a rare as hen's teeth and highly sought after.

Thanks for the interesting info - no, no Aldi in WA yet.
The above sounds quite ironic to me (in the context of this discussion).
A super-competitive chain can afford to *not* open for extended hours.
And chains choosing to trade during extended hours are, at best,
(price) competitive with Aldi.

>When my brother visits from the West he is alway disgusted to find he can
>buy Margaret River/Swan Valley wines significantly cheaper here than he can
>in Rockingham.

A bit more irony. Rockingham is one of the few precincts in WA
that *does* have extended trading on Sundays.

--
Chris,

From:	Jonathan Wilson
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:01:26 +0800

>>When my brother visits from the West he is alway disgusted to find he can
>>buy Margaret River/Swan Valley wines significantly cheaper here than he can
>>in Rockingham.
>
>
> A bit more irony. Rockingham is one of the few precincts in WA
> that *does* have extended trading on Sundays.
However, in this case, alcohol was what was being refered to.
Unless Rockingham has a special exemption, bottle shops (except those
attached to pubs) cant open on a sunday.

From:	jg
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Thu, 09 Dec 2004 12:13:36 GMT

"Walter Plinge" wrote in message
news:41b8093f$0$8114$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Walmart and Home Depot don't require "trading licences" (whatever they
are)
> to operate in Austtralia. They are welcome to open up here if they reckon
> they can make a buck. I wish they would - they sound like excellent
stores
> from anything I've read.
>
> All this kerfufflle at the West's anachronistic 19th century trading hours
> is pointless. Sooner rather than later the West is going to dragged
kicking
> and screaming into the late 20th century, circa 1996.
>
> And it won't happen because the Government want to. It will happen as it
did
> in Victoria: 'rebel' small traders will force the issue. The Government
will
> be forced to gaol considerable numbers of small businessmen of cave in. It
> will cave in.
>
> Anyway, haven't some furniture retailers already done this in the West?
>
> The West is so far behind the rest Australia. They've only fairly recently
> got Bunnings megastores, when we've had them for 10 years. And Bunnings is
a
> WA-based company. Seems to not much lot faith in its home state.
>
Bunnings used to be a quality hardware before you ever heard of them, then
they went mega & sold shit - you were introduced to them shortly after that,
and you can't tell the difference apparently. Yes Harvey Norman tried it on,
they are not a small retailer. Small retailers can only survive by staying
open longer than the others, if the big ones have extended hours the small
fish are stuffed. If you need any more help please hesitate.....

From:	Clockmeister
Subject:	Re: Retail trading hours in WA
Date:	Thu, 9 Dec 2004 22:30:05 +0800

"Walter Plinge" wrote in message
news:41b8093f$0$8114$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Walmart and Home Depot don't require "trading licences" (whatever they
are)
> to operate in Austtralia. They are welcome to open up here if they reckon
> they can make a buck. I wish they would - they sound like excellent
stores
> from anything I've read.
>
> All this kerfufflle at the West's anachronistic 19th century trading hours
> is pointless. Sooner rather than later the West is going to dragged
kicking
> and screaming into the late 20th century, circa 1996.
>
> And it won't happen because the Government want to. It will happen as it
did
> in Victoria: 'rebel' small traders will force the issue. The Government
will
> be forced to gaol considerable numbers of small businessmen of cave in. It
> will cave in.
>
> Anyway, haven't some furniture retailers already done this in the West?
>
> The West is so far behind the rest Australia. They've only fairly recently
> got Bunnings megastores, when we've had them for 10 years. And Bunnings is
a
> WA-based company. Seems to not much lot faith in its home state.
>

Might have something to do with population density you think?